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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by coming from
    Quote Originally Posted by 6days
    But without His death, he would not be able to forgive our sin. Do you know why?
    Jesus' words are spirit, and are life.
    That doesn't answer the question.... Do you understand that without the shed blood of Jesus, we would be eternally lost? Do you know why the physical death of Jesus was required? Do you know why, our sins can only be removed, because of what Last Adam accomplished at Calvary?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oleander View Post
    The first things jesus command you to do:
    Repent kingdom of God at hand.
    No blood needed.
    Nope.

    Jesus commanded the BoC to rest in Him.

    To the extent that one tries to do anything for salvation is the extent that one has failed Christ at resting in Him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Nope.

    Jesus commanded the BoC to rest in Him.

    To the extent that one tries to do anything for salvation is the extent that one has failed Christ at resting in Him.
    >>Matt. 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oleander View Post
    >>Matt. 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
    Keep reading:

    But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” - Matthew 15:24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...4&version=NKJV
    Last edited by JudgeRightly; January 8th, 2019 at 03:18 PM.

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    Thank you, 6days.

    That doesn't answer the question.... Do you understand that without the shed blood of Jesus, we would be eternally lost?
    Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
    Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, ye have no life in you.

    John 6:53

    Do you know why the physical death of Jesus was required?
    And said unto them, Thus it is written,
    and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
    That repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations,
    beginning at Jerusalem.

    Luke 24:46-47

    Do you know why, our sins can only be removed, because of what Last Adam accomplished at Calvary?
    And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD:
    for they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD;
    for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    Jeremiah 31:34

    Bless Jesus.
    `Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    If that is true... The cross becomes meaningless.
    Sorry, that makes no sense. The fact that God did NOT create us as perfect immortal robots, is PRECISELY why the cross has meaning. The cross would have been unnecessary if humans were perfect!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6days
    A perfect creation was ruined by first Adam, and the consequences defeated by Last Adam (1Cor. 15)
    Very close.... but not quite. Jesus has NOT defeated the last enemy "death" yet. The fact that Jehovah/YHVH God resurrected Jesus FROM the dead, to immortal life, PROVES that death WILL BE ultimately defeated .... but it hasn't happened yet. We still die ..... in spite of Satan's claim that you don't REALLY die.
    1 Cor 15:23-28 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
    24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
    25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
    26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
    27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
    28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    That doesn't answer the question.... Do you understand that without the shed blood of Jesus, we would be eternally lost? Do you know why the physical death of Jesus was required? Do you know why, our sins can only be removed, because of what Last Adam accomplished at Calvary?
    Hi 6days.

    Jesus' words answer all my questions.
    I drink His blood and I wash my robes in His blood.

    If Jesus hadn't risen from death, nobody would have believed He was sent by God.

    The Lord Jesus washes us from our sins when we repent and come stand before Him.
    Or so it was for me.

    And after Jesus washed me,
    then I had to look and see if there weren't still some devils left in me.
    Some habits are hard to die. Some required fasting and prayer.

    Unto Him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in His own blood,
    and hath made us kings and priests unto God and His Father;
    to Him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

    Revelation 1:5-6

    And the priest shall look on the plague, after that it is washed:
    and, behold, if the plague have not changed his colour, and the plague be not spread;
    it is unclean;
    thou shalt burn it in the fire;
    it is fret inward, whether it be bare within or without.
    And if the priest look, and, behold, the plague be somewhat dark after the washing of it;
    then he shall rend it out of the garment,
    or out of the skin, or out of the warp, or out of the woof:
    And if it appear still in the garment,
    either in the warp, or in the woof, or in any thing of skin;
    it is a spreading plague:
    thou shalt burn that wherein the plague is with fire.
    And the garment,
    either warp, or woof, or whatsoever thing of skin it be, which thou shalt wash,
    if the plague be departed from them, then it shall be washed the second time,
    and shall be clean.

    Leviticus 13:55-58

    And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest.
    And he said to me,
    These are they which came out of great tribulation,
    and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

    Revelations 7:14

    Praise Jesus.

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    No, with help from others. I have scanned this thread. The answer is that God wanted Jesus to die the way that He did, for us. And that God maybe could have done things a different way but He didn't. He did things the way that He wanted to do them.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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    Quote Originally Posted by coming from
    Jesus' words answer all my questions.
    I drink His blood and I wash my robes in His blood.

    If Jesus hadn't risen from death, nobody would have believed He was sent by God.
    So you seem to think that the physical death of Jesus was required for our salvation..... But it does not seem that you understand why the cross was necessary. It is clear from scripture that the purpose of the cross was not to prove the deity of Jesus.

    Scripture tells us that shed blood / death is the penalty for sin. Part of the penalty we pay for first Adam's sin (and, our own sin) is physical death. (Romans 5 doctrine of imputation) Death entered our world because of sin. Genesis 2:16,17. Without shedding of blood (physical death) there is no forgiveness of sin. Hebrews 9:22 So... our penalty is physical death... dying in our sinful state and eternally separated from God. However, a mediator stepped in, and took our punishment. There was only one possible mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. 2 Tim.2:5,6 There was no other way for our salvation other than "last Adam", our mediator, suffering physical death on our behalf then defeating death in the resurrection... in which we are invited to partake in. 1 Cor.15
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman
    Sorry, that makes no sense. The fact that God did NOT create us as perfect immortal robots, is PRECISELY why the cross has meaning. The cross would have been unnecessary if humans were perfect!
    You seem to believe a perfect, omniscient, omnipotent God, can create something that is less than perfect? "He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he." Deut. 32:4

    Your 'logic' is illogical. God of course could have created "perfect immortal robots" , but instead He created humans to love. Love ALWAYS demands the freedom of choice. His works are perfect!

    The cross (physical death of Last Adam) was necessary because death entered our world from first Adam. Nothing other than the death and resurrection of Last Adam could save us from eternal separation from God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman
    Jesus has NOT defeated the last enemy "death" yet. The fact that Jehovah/YHVH God resurrected Jesus FROM the dead, to immortal life, PROVES that death WILL BE ultimately defeated .... but it hasn't happened yet.
    "but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death"2 Timothy 1:10
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    You seem to believe a perfect, omniscient, omnipotent God, can create something that is less than perfect?
    Of course. He can create anything He wants. What He wants are, sons and daughters, that CHOOSE Him. .... even when they are tempted to choose other things. He wants sons and daughters that will believe Him, and love Him for what He has given, and for what He has promised.

    Which would you rather have, a friend that is PROGRAMMED to always respond with affection toward you ..... or a person who CHOOSES to count you as their friend, in spite of times you disagree?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman
    Jesus has NOT defeated the last enemy "death" yet. The fact that Jehovah/YHVH God resurrected Jesus FROM the dead, to immortal life, PROVES that death WILL BE ultimately defeated .... but it hasn't happened yet.

    "but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death"2 Timothy 1:10
    Good verse! And, it APPEARS to contradict 1 Cor 15:24-28, and Rev 20:14, and Rev 21:4, and Rom 8:23-25 .... and others.

    So, how would you explain this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    So you seem to think that the physical death of Jesus was required for our salvation..... But it does not seem that you understand why the cross was necessary. It is clear from scripture that the purpose of the cross was not to prove the deity of Jesus.
    Then said Jesus unto His disciples,
    If any man will come after Me,
    let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.

    Matthew 16:24

    Scripture tells us that shed blood / death is the penalty for sin. Part of the penalty we pay for first Adam's sin (and, our own sin) is physical death. (Romans 5 doctrine of imputation) Death entered our world because of sin. Genesis 2:16,17. Without shedding of blood (physical death) there is no forgiveness of sin. Hebrews 9:22 So... our penalty is physical death... dying in our sinful state and eternally separated from God. However, a mediator stepped in, and took our punishment. There was only one possible mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. 2 Tim.2:5,6 There was no other way for our salvation other than "last Adam", our mediator, suffering physical death on our behalf then defeating death in the resurrection... in which we are invited to partake in. 1 Cor.15
    Verily, verily, I say unto you,
    If a man keep My saying, he shall never see death.

    John 8:51

    Bless Jesus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by comingfrom View Post
    Then said Jesus unto His disciples,
    If any man will come after Me,
    let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.

    Matthew 16:24
    Verily, verily, I say unto you,
    If a man keep My saying, he shall never see death.

    John 8:51
    Bless Jesus.
    Answering with scripture is great...but random verses without context or comment is silly. Your answers might be better if you could explain how the verse answers the question. But the two versus you just posted don't say anything, about why the physical death of Jesus was necessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Good verse! And, it APPEARS to contradict 1 Cor 15:24-28, and Rev 20:14, and Rev 21:4, and Rom 8:23-25 .... and others.

    So, how would you explain this?
    Of course God's Word cannot be contradictory. Jesus has defeated death with His resurrection. However we still live in a sin cursed world, where we still have pain, suffering and death. Because Jesus defeated death, we also will be physically resurrected.

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