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Thread: NO MORE WORKS

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    They don't I was replying to this comment pasted below

    God's Grace is not given to the unfaithful.

    Luke 16:10-13
    10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
    11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
    12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?
    13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

    11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

    Some say that verse 6 above is saying that at one time, God saved people unto eternal life by their works, but now it is by grace. This is because the verse reads it is " no more of works", therefore, it used to be. I do not hold to this.

    Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

    9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

    9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

    In the verses above, the meaning of "no more of works" can be found. Paul is saying that Israel sought righteousness, not by faith, but by the works of the law. Romans 11:6 is saying, the election of grace is God's determination to save those that believe by faith; faith would be based on the propitiation of Jesus. Israel stumbled at the stumblingstone of Christ. The remnant attained righteousness by faith. This righteousness is by grace, not by works. The remnant did not attain righteousness by the works of the law.

    Paul stated that all of Israel were not children of God by virture of being of the seed of Abraham; Israel is counted as being the children of God thru the promise God gave through Isaac.

    Rebecca had two sons, Jacob and Esau, by Isaac; God elected to chose Jacob to make the covenant.

    Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

    Election is God chosing how, and through whom, he will fulfill His purposes. God did not chose Jacob because he did good, and Esau did evil. The election of grace is not dependant on doing good or evil. The election is of grace. The election is not of works.

    That is why Romans 11:6 says that it is "no more of works". The remnant attains righteousness by the election of grace. If the election is by grace, then it is no more of works. Grace has been chosen by God for righteousness. Works have been eliminated as a means of attaining righteousness.
    Kind of...

    Paul begins his narrative on the idea that it appears that because Israel failed to work that righteousness which was of the law, God was now through with them.

    Paul then counters that.

    He then adds that, actually, God's plan and purpose for Israel was/is no more of works than works is of grace - for the two are mutually exclusive - that God's plan and purpose for, and through Israel has always been an election of, or based on, His grace.

    As in....

    Exodus 32:11 And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand? 32:12 Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people. 32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever. 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

    As events like those had been meant to illustrate, their Election is of Grace - is because that is what He had determined their Election would be of - of His grace - given both His intent for Himself, and what that had served to remind Israel of.

    That He alone is their LORD and His determined plan and purpose is HIS doing.

    Ezekiel 36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

    Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

    Which makes a complete mockery of the "God is through with Israel" crowd, for it was never about Israel's will, but about His determined will, alone.

    Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

    Acts 17: 11, 12.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Another idiotic post, as she posts the above, which is quite irrelevant to her providing scriptural proof that "earthly" is the opposite of "spiritual"

    Slower: The opposite of spiritual, is not "earthly," as you assert.

    And no, both the OT and NT are about "earthly man/things." False dichotomy.


    The NT, OT, are about both the spiritual, and "earthly"-Genesis-Revelation.

    The opposite of spiritual, is not "earthly," as you assert.



    Quite irrelevant to your argument.



    Quite irrelevant to your argument, as the NT is about "earthly," and spiritual, as is the OT.


    You: "Jesus" was born on earth-that is "earthly," not spiritual.


    You're a clown, in a parade of clowns.
    You haven't disproved anything I said. Try again.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You haven't disproved anything I said. Try again.
    Slower: The opposite of spiritual, is not "earthly," as you assert.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    They HAD to like you HAVE to put gas in your car...what a burden right?

    Your rebelliousness knows no end...being saved means WANTING to do something as “Thy Law is a delight”...imagine the joy of being called His People...

    but for you its oy vey! we HAVE to do this? AND this? And THIS too?




    Yours keep forgetting Israel was ALWAYS about ALL people and His house a house of prayer for ALL NATIONS...

    Leviticus 19:34
    The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the LORD your God.

    Exodus 12:49
    "The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you."

    Leviticus 24:22
    'There shall be one standard for you; it shall be for the stranger as well as the native, for I am the LORD your God.'"

    Numbers 9:14
    'If an alien sojourns among you and observes the Passover to the LORD, according to the statute of the Passover and according to its ordinance, so he shall do; you shall have one statute, both for the alien and for the native of the land.'"

    Numbers 15:14
    'If an alien sojourns with you, or one who may be among you throughout your generations, and he wishes to make an offering by fire, as a soothing aroma to the LORD, just as you do so he shall do.

    Numbers 15:15
    'As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the alien who sojourns with you, a perpetual statute throughout your generations; as you are, so shall the alien be before the LORD.

    Numbers 15:16
    'There is to be one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.'"

    Numbers 15:29
    'You shall have one law for him who does anything unintentionally, for him who is native among the sons of Israel and for the alien who sojourns among them.

    Deuteronomy 1:16
    "Then I charged your judges at that time, saying, 'Hear the cases between your fellow countrymen, and judge righteously between a man and his fellow countryman, or the alien who is with him.

    Deuteronomy 24:14
    "You shall not oppress a hired servant who is poor and needy, whether he is one of your countrymen or one of your aliens who is in your land in your towns.

    Leviticus 18:26
    'But as for you, you are to keep My statutes and My judgments and shall not do any of these abominations, neither the native, nor the alien who sojourns among you

    Exodus 12:19
    'Seven days there shall be no leaven found in your houses; for whoever eats what is leavened, that person shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is an alien or a native of the land.

    Exodus 20:10
    but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.

    Deuteronomy 5:14
    but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.

    Leviticus 16:29
    "This shall be a permanent statute for you: in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall humble your souls and not do any work, whether the native, or the alien who sojourns among you;

    Leviticus 17:8
    "Then you shall say to them, 'Any man from the house of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, who offers a burnt offering or sacrifice,

    Leviticus 17:10
    'And any man from the house of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, who eats any blood, I will set My face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people.

    Leviticus 22:18
    "Speak to Aaron and to his sons and to all the sons of Israel and say to them, 'Any man of the house of Israel or of the aliens in Israel who presents his offering, whether it is any of their votive or any of their freewill offerings, which they present to the LORD for a burnt offering--

    Leviticus 17:13
    "So when any man from the sons of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, in hunting catches a beast or a bird which may be eaten, he shall pour out its blood and cover it with earth.

    Leviticus 24:16
    'Moreover, the one who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall certainly stone him. The alien as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.

    Numbers 15:26
    'So all the congregation of the sons of Israel will be forgiven, with the alien who sojourns among them, for it happened to all the people through error.

    Numbers 35:15
    'These six cities shall be for refuge for the sons of Israel, and for the alien and for the sojourner among them; that anyone who kills a person unintentionally may flee there.

    Joshua 20:9
    These were the appointed cities for all the sons of Israel and for the stranger who sojourns among them, that whoever kills any person unintentionally may flee there, and not die by the hand of the avenger of blood until he stands before the congregation.

    Numbers 19:10
    'The one who gathers the ashes of the heifer shall wash his clothes and be unclean until evening; and it shall be a perpetual statute to the sons of Israel and to the alien who sojourns among them.

    These texts are why jews rejected Yahushua KILLED HIM EVEN...because He reminded them Israel was about faith and obedience BY ANYONE...WHOSOEVER BELIEVES...because Yah SO LOVED THE WORLD...

    And it makes people MAD that Israel is NOT a special genetic bloodline but of promise...from ABOVE

    ALWAYS WAS SPIRITUAL as Sarah’s bloodline was DONE she was barren...but YAH made Issac...YAH changed Jacob’s name to ISRAEL...

    YAH determines Who His people are...not man his traditions of might and power

    Yup Israel always just spiritual and not genes and for all Nations makes people really MAD

    yup the wall between jew and goy was well established but IN HIM it was destroyed...is why let no one judge goyim for KEEPING the sabbaths et al...which ARE a shadow of things STILL TO COME...




    Yes BY HIS PARENTS FAITH...that baby boy grew in faith because he understood who he was...and WANTS to remains so and by DOING the Law...Israel was always of promise and faith to that promise by works...


    LOL they were saved BEFORE they even received the Law...they WANTED to keep it because they were saved...well they said they did LOL...and believed they were of Abraham...

    That covenant was because of the one given to Abraham...you believe he was your father you obey...as he did...

    You think Abraham would reject a command? Make void a law through faith? CERTAINLY NOT!


    duh...you just cherry pick what you obey...the rest are not for you...

    Like getting an owner’s manual with your new car and randomly removing its pages...”nope not for me”



    Doing right is exactly the point of the law...it goes from HAVE TO to WANT TO..I mean someone has to pay you to clean their kitchen yes?...but your own kitchen you don’t HAVE TO right? I mean it’s your kitchen...you should WANT TO...

    But your rebelliousness and hatred of the Law is quite profound...cleanliness is next to Godliness I heard
    The people in the covenant with God HAD TO get circumcised in the flesh or they could NOT be called a child of God.

    They HAD TO ATONE for their own sins!

    Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood thatmaketh an atonement for the soul.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Slower: The opposite of spiritual, is not "earthly," as you assert.
    You haven't disproved anything I said. Try again.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You haven't disproved anything I said. Try again.
    You haven't said anything, except that you, on record, assert that the birth, death, and resurrection are not spiritual, demon. Get sober, again,demon.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    You haven't said anything, except that you, on record, assert that the birth, death, and resurrection are not spiritual, demon. Get sober, again,demon.
    No such thing what you say.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    No such thing what you say.
    You assert that "earthly" is not spiritual, loser. Thus, with that made up slop, false dichotomy, all the literal events, people, places, history, in both the OT and NT are not "spiritual."


    You're insane, intoxicated, or 4 years old, and your baby sitter is typing for you-no other option.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    The people in the covenant with God HAD TO get circumcised in the flesh or they could NOT be called a child of God.
    you keep missing it...

    They WANTED TO...those people in the covenant WANTED TO...even today people get tattoos and body piercings and other modification because they WANT TO...since they see themselves as a chosen cool

    They HAD TO ATONE for their own sins!
    again they WANTED to...Hebrews 9-10 make quite clear all these sacrifices did NOT remove sin...but showed a symbolic restoration the real literal permanent is through and by Him...and still to come

    Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood thatmaketh an atonement for the soul.
    yes He knows His own crave a symbol or ceremony or ritual by which they are comforted and secured as His...what GRACE these symbolic works...

    His people WANT TO...they delight in His Law

    All others are rebellious and stiffnecked and rejecting HIM HIS WAY...preferring their own traditions or rationale NOT TO OBEY

    His yoke is easy His burden is light...except for those stiffnecked

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    The people in the covenant with God HAD TO get circumcised in the flesh or they could NOT be called a child of God.
    Thank you, God's Truth.
    They had to to avoid the condemnation of men like yourself who say this.

    Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead,
    nor print any marks upon you:
    I am the LORD.

    Leviticus 19:28

    If God had wanted us without foreskins or clitoris He would have made us that way.

    They HAD TO ATONE for their own sins!
    They had to make an acceptable offering to God, for Him to atone them.
    As it is today.
    It is still the same for Christians.
    We still have to make the sinners' prayer and offer up our life to Jesus.
    Didn't we?

    And only the people who do this with a sincere heart are redeemed.
    If they do this only with their lips, or with secret sinful desire in the heart,
    their offering will not be accepted.
    Is it?

    Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood thatmaketh an atonement for the soul.
    Here we see the blood of atonement spoken about long before our Lord Jesus appeared in the flesh.
    And here the Lord speaks of our day of atonement.

    Also
    on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement:
    it shall be an holy convocation unto you;
    and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
    And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement,
    to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 23:27-28

    Praise God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by comingfrom View Post
    Thank you, God's Truth.
    They had to to avoid the condemnation of men like yourself who say this.

    Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead,
    nor print any marks upon you:
    I am the LORD.

    Leviticus 19:28

    If God had wanted us without foreskins or clitoris He would have made us that way.



    They had to make an acceptable offering to God, for Him to atone them.
    As it is today.
    It is still the same for Christians.
    We still have to make the sinners' prayer and offer up our life to Jesus.
    Didn't we?

    And only the people who do this with a sincere heart are redeemed.
    If they do this only with their lips, or with secret sinful desire in the heart,
    their offering will not be accepted.
    Is it?



    Here we see the blood of atonement spoken about long before our Lord Jesus appeared in the flesh.
    And here the Lord speaks of our day of atonement.

    Also
    on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement:
    it shall be an holy convocation unto you;
    and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
    And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement,
    to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 23:27-28

    Praise God.
    I see Meshak likes this mess you posted.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    You assert that "earthly" is not spiritual, loser. Thus, with that made up slop, false dichotomy, all the literal events, people, places, history, in both the OT and NT are not "spiritual."


    You're insane, intoxicated, or 4 years old, and your baby sitter is typing for you-no other option.
    They thought Jesus was insane too. So thank you.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    you keep missing it...

    They WANTED TO...those people in the covenant WANTED TO...even today people get tattoos and body piercings and other modification because they WANT TO...since they see themselves as a chosen cool
    How do you ever get that I miss anything? If they wanted to be a child of God they had to get circumcised in the flesh.
    When Moses wasn’t going to circumcise his son, God was going to kill Moses.
    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post

    again they WANTED to...Hebrews 9-10 make quite clear all these sacrifices did NOT remove sin...but showed a symbolic restoration the real literal permanent is through and by Him...and still to come
    What you are saying has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    yes He knows His own crave a symbol or ceremony or ritual by which they are comforted and secured as His...what GRACE these symbolic works...
    God commanded the purification works.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    They thought Jesus was insane too. So thank you.
    GT's logic:

    1) People thought that Jesus was insane.

    2) The people were wrong.

    3) Therefore, when people think that other people are insane, they are always wrong.
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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