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Thread: RE: Schumer"s and Cortez's Clean Energy Economy

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    kit - do you understand what he's trying to get at with this?
    Yes and he is even right to a degree but I think he is too narrowly focused.
    "Repubs must not allow [The President] to subvert the Constitution of the US for his own benefit & because he is unable to negotiate w/ Congress," Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    hydroelectric is renewed every time it rains

    guess what drives that?

    right - solar energy
    All our fossil fuels are when you get down to it is chemically stored solar energy. Pretty much all our energy is solar with the exception of nuclear which comes from the heart of a supernova if I understand it correctly.
    "Repubs must not allow [The President] to subvert the Constitution of the US for his own benefit & because he is unable to negotiate w/ Congress," Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    All our fossil fuels are when you get down to it is chemically stored solar energy. Pretty much all our energy is solar with the exception of nuclear which comes from the heart of a supernova if I understand it correctly.

    This is so painful . . . you could not be more wrong.

    Hydroelectricity is created 100 percent by man. They are called Dam's on rivers. No dam no hydro

    There are three reasons to build a dam.

    Flood control.

    Water reservoir for water supply and recreation.

    Hydro electricity.

    Dam's just like any other non-subsidized structure have to have benefit's that exceed their cost. Giving the builder a net benefit.

    The vast majority of dams are not constructed to generate electricity because of the capital cost and maintenance. The vast majority of dams are built for water reservoirs and the electricity is a by product.

    While reservoirs are potential energy, as they are available on demand, they are extremely finite. Water releases are not done for the need for electricity, water releases are done by the demand for water downstream. In today political environment, water releases are done for political reasons and or dictated by law. Hardly a good predicable source of electricity. So, while technically reservoirs are potential energy and "available on demand" the truth is they are not available on demand as they are not detected by demand. So the power has very little value.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tieman55 View Post
    ...(hydroelectric) power has very little value.

    your ignorance is matched only by your determination to remain ignorant

    educate yourself:


    Niagara falls:
    2.7 GW
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert...ra_Power_Plant



    St Lawrence river:
    1 GW
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses-Saunders_Power_Dam


    Manicouagan - the eye of Quebec:
    1.5 GW
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel-Johnson_Dam



    to produce the same power that these three stations produce all day, every day, you'd have to burn 62,000 tons of coal - 520 railcars full of coal

    every day

    and there are multiple stations on the st lawrence and the outardes-manicouagan complex

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ok doser For Your Post:

    fool (January 9th, 2019),Kit the Coyote (January 9th, 2019)

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by tieman55 View Post
    Hydroelectricity is created 100 percent by man.

    where's all that water come from?

    man?

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    Quebec alone:

    Hydro-Québec

    Type Crown Corporation
    Industry Electric utilities
    Founded April 14, 1944
    Headquarters Hydro-Québec Building, Montreal, Quebec
    , Canada
    Area served
    Quebec
    Key people
    Éric Martel (President & CEO), Jacynthe Côté (Chair of the Board)[1],[2]
    Products Electric power generation, electric power transmission, electricity distribution
    Revenue 13.754 billion[3] CAD
    Operating income
    5.596 billion[3] CAD
    Net income
    3.147 billion[3] CAD
    Total assets 75.199 billion[3] CAD
    Owner Government of Quebec
    Number of employees
    19,794[3]
    Website www.hydroquebec.com

    Hydro-Québec is a public utility that manages the generation, transmission and distribution of electricity in Quebec.

    It was formed by the Government of Quebec in 1944 from the expropriation of private firms. This was followed by massive investment in hydro-electric projects like Churchill Falls and the James Bay Project. Today, with 63 hydroelectric power stations, the combined output capacity is 36,912 megawatts. Extra power is exported from the province and Hydro-Québec supplies 10 per cent of New England's power requirements.[4]

    Hydro-Québec is a state-owned enterprise based in Montreal. In 2015, it paid CAD$2.36 billion in dividends to its sole shareholder, the Government of Québec. Its residential power rates are among the lowest in North America.[5]

    More than 40 percent of Canada’s water resources are in Québec and Hydro-Québec is the fourth largest hydropower producer in the world.[4]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydro-Qu%C3%A9bec
    that's right - nearly 37 GW

    and revenue of $13.7 billion

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    You gave examples of Dam's built by men. Without the dam you have no hydro.

    Again, Dams are not primarily built for electricity. They were built for reasons I gave you.

    The water released is not done by the demand for electricity as the water in the reservoirs are finite.

    The Niagara falls example if false according the link attached.

    copied and pasted below


    Installed capacity 2,675 MW (3,587,000 hp)

    That is at full load which rare. And again, the electricity created is not according to demand. It is generated to regulate the flow of water and the electricity is a "by product" The release of the water is dictated by law and or river level downstream and not by the demand of electricity


    I like dams, they are a great part of infrastructure. Good public investment but they have zero to do with solar energy.

    The only example of solar energy that truly works is photosynthesis, plant a thousand seeds where they are naturally watered and in the life span of a solar panel or a wind mill you will be a millionaire. And it is good for the environment, while your solar panels are filling up the land fills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tieman55 View Post
    You gave examples of Dam's built by men.
    every power plant that burns coal is built by man

    Without the dam you have no hydro.
    without the power plant to burn coal, you have no power generation

    Again, Dams are not primarily built for electricity.
    every single one of the dams i listed was

    The water released is not done by the demand for electricity as the water in the reservoirs are finite.
    no, it is infinite, because it is infinitely renewable

    because of the sun, which causes evaporation, which falls as rain to refill the reservoirs


    The Niagara falls example... (electricity) is generated to regulate the flow of water and the electricity is a "by product" The release of the water is dictated by law and or river level downstream and not by the demand of electricity
    i'm sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about

    the reservoir that feeds the robert moses project is lake erie

    the "river" downstream is lake ontario

    the dam wasn't built to regulate the level of water in either body, it was built deliberately to generate electricity

    just like all the others i listed

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    Quote Originally Posted by tieman55 View Post
    ...The only example of solar energy that truly works....

    i have one of these on my fishing boat - it works just fine


    truly



  12. The Following User Says Thank You to ok doser For Your Post:

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    [QUOTE=ok doser;5305012]


    no, it is infinite, because it is infinitely renewable

    because of the sun, which causes evaporation, which falls as rain to refill the reservoirs


    Again, I love dams, they are good idea. But they are not solar power. They are concrete and steel structures made largely with diesel fuel in large equipment.

    Dam's regulate water flow and are in no way infinite. If they were infinite you would need no other source of generation. Water is let out according to law and water levels down stream and levels in the reservoir. Dams are not used to regulate frequency and or peakers, they are used for water control and the electricity in most cases is a by-product. Dam's also always have overflows in the case that too much water is coming into the dam. And dams are often completely closed due to low water levels.

    I will conceded that they are probably some dams that may be built in the world as the world is a large place, that may have been built with the primary goal of generation electricity. I never said that generation wasn't a consideration. I am saying that generally when building a dam it is for water control, not electricity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tieman55 View Post
    I am saying that generally when building a dam it is for water control, not electricity.
    well, that's why i included all those links

    if you look at just one, look at the Hydro-Quebec link - most all of those massive projects were built solely for power generation - the rivers below them are considered to be spillways, and in many cases, development is not allowed
    Last edited by ok doser; January 9th, 2019 at 07:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tieman55 View Post
    I like dams, they are a great part of infrastructure. Good public investment but they have zero to do with solar energy.
    What powers the water cycle?
    "Repubs must not allow [The President] to subvert the Constitution of the US for his own benefit & because he is unable to negotiate w/ Congress," Donald Trump

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    I am sorry but 2.7 GigaWatts sound weak for any electrical power plant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SabathMoon View Post
    I am sorry but 2.7 GigaWatts sound weak for any electrical power plant.
    Ginna nuke plant in upstate new york is half a gigawatt


    the A1B reactor in nuclear aircraft carriers is estimated at 0.7 GW

    the biggest coal fired plants (chinese) put out around 5-6 GW, using multiple boilers/generators rated around 0.5 GW each


    the biggest nuke facility uses seven reactors of around 1.1 GW each:
    Tokyo Electric Power Co.'s (TEPCO) Kashiwazaki-Kariwa plant in Japan is currently the world's largest nuclear power plant, with a net capacity of 7,965MW. Kashiwazaki-Kariwa has seven boiling water reactors (BWR) with a gross installed capacity of 8,212MW.




    palo verde is the biggest nuke plant in the US, using three reactors of 1.4 GW capacity each



    the biggest solar project, in india, covers 10 square kilometers and generates 0.648 GW

    the biggest wind project, in california, uses 586 turbines to generate 1.5 GW
    Last edited by ok doser; January 9th, 2019 at 11:09 PM.

  19. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SabathMoon View Post
    I am sorry but 2.7 GigaWatts sound weak for any electrical power plant.
    Our local coal power plant is rated at 257 MW.

    According to the Union of Concerned Scientists, a typical coal-fired power plant is around 600MW. Any plant measuring output in GW is considered a 'large' scale plant.
    Last edited by Kit the Coyote; January 10th, 2019 at 06:42 AM. Reason: additional information
    "Repubs must not allow [The President] to subvert the Constitution of the US for his own benefit & because he is unable to negotiate w/ Congress," Donald Trump

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