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Thread: We need more law keepers.

  1. #46
    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcon View Post
    If you really cared you would suggest that Jacob depend only on the Bible, just like Jehovah's Witnesses do.

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    Then I recommend that you, being a JW (are you not?), go buy a New King James Bible and read it cover to cover. Several times.

  2. #47
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcon View Post
    Truth is what we have to give. The fact that we use the Bible as our main source, makes it so..We don't have traditions that we rely on, just the Bible.

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    But why change the Bible to make it say something else?
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Are you a JW yourself?
    Yes. But not always. I examined other beliefs to see if they knew what they were talking about. It was no surprise that they didn't. For the most part, they proved to be no more than social clubs. When I investigated Jehovah's Witnesses, everything was based on the Bible, not on personal opinion. The elders in the JW Congregation were all in complete agreement. There were/are no arguments amongst them. As an organization, Jehovah’s Witnesses totally embraced the admonition from God in every part of the Scriptures. This is why no matter where you are in the world, we are all in complete agreement. No other religious group in the world is as unified as Jehovah's Witnesses are. Unfortunately, this unity is a sore subject with those who wish they had it. They feel they have no other option but, to try to keep people who would like to be part of such a wonderful organization in the dark.

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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    JW is a cult. Here is your "proof":

    • It denies that Christ is God the Son come in the flesh.

    • It accepts writings of men as being on the same level of authority or higher than the Bible.

    • It officially issues false prophecies, an example of which is that the author of "Harp of God," 'Judge Rutherford,' wrongly claimed in the 1921 text that "millions now living will never die..."

    That's three witnesses, more than enough to condemn, with the Bible's standard of "two or three witnesses," Jehovah's Witnesses as a cult.
    The Bible makes it very clear that Jesus is the Son of God, not God himself. If he were, he would have been offering up his prayers to himself, in effect, talking to himself. In what context would that ever make sense?

    There are no writings that are greater than the Bible. People have made this false claim because our reasoning on the Scriptures makes perfect sense. They feel that it can't possibly be that simple and there are no mysteries that we cannot explain.

    That statement " millions now living will never die " still applies today, since the end of this system of things has not happened yet. In 1921 there was no date to go with that statement. In addition, it was simply a statement, not a prophecy.

    Your fourth accusation makes no sense, hence I will not attempt to address it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Then I recommend that you, being a JW (are you not?), go buy a New King James Bible and read it cover to cover. Several times.
    That will not be necessary as all you have to do is quote any scripture in the KJV, and I will use the NWT to prove that they say essentially the same thing. The only difference, if there is one, would be that the KJV is a revision of a translation, and the NWT is a translation of the original writings like the Dead Sea Scrolls. The original writings trump revisions everytime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    But why change the Bible to make it say something else?
    Jehovah's Witnesses did not change the Bible. The translators of the NWT agreed that a revision of a current translation would not be good enough. They decided to use the original writings instead to make sure that people would have the most accurate information possible. No tricks, no slight of hand, simple accuracy.

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  7. #52
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodeneye View Post
    Just what does the firstborn of all creation mean to you? To anyone who takes the time to reason on it, it means Jesus was born first before any other creation. Someone who is/was born has parents, or in the case of Jesus, a parent, his Father. God did not create himself, he created his Son. They, in turn, created everything else.

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    It means exactly what is described in the text.

    He was before all things Col. 1:17KJV, created all things. Col. 1:16KJV

    Before anything came into being, the Word was with God and was God. John 1:1KJV
    He came out from God John 16:27KJV, came down from heaven John 6:38KJV, and became flesh. John 1:14KJV

    Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to glorydaz For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (December 31st, 2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Try doing it without your iPad that they give you nowadays.

    Go buy a New King James Bible at a nearby store and read through it.

    Or do they prohibit that?
    First, if we have an iPad, or any other electronic device, we purchased it ourselves. Second, many Witnesses use a King James Bible as a reference to verify that both Bible's are in agreement. You might want to ask for a New World Translation for a simple donation. They are not for sale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Improving someone else's life is important if it is according to the truth. Otherwise it is pretend.
    Every individual who has become a member of Jehovah's Witnesses has improved their life. They're not tied down by the meaningless rituals and traditions of other religions. If rituals and traditions float your boat, then have at it. I have yet to find that Jesus, in his 33 years, participated in a single ritual or tradition. So, I chose to follow his lead.

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  11. #55
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcon View Post
    Yes. But not always. I examined other beliefs to see if they knew what they were talking about. It was no surprise that they didn't. For the most part, they proved to be no more than social clubs. When I investigated Jehovah's Witnesses, everything was based on the Bible, not on personal opinion. The elders in the JW Congregation were all in complete agreement. There were/are no arguments amongst them. As an organization, Jehovah’s Witnesses totally embraced the admonition from God in every part of the Scriptures. This is why no matter where you are in the world, we are all in complete agreement. No other religious group in the world is as unified as Jehovah's Witnesses are. Unfortunately, this unity is a sore subject with those who wish they had it. They feel they have no other option but, to try to keep people who would like to be part of such a wonderful organization in the dark.

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    I have had the opportunity to be a part of a couple of real good churches that were not JW.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

  12. #56
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodeneye View Post
    Jehovah's Witnesses did not change the Bible. The translators of the NWT agreed that a revision of a current translation would not be good enough. They decided to use the original writings instead to make sure that people would have the most accurate information possible. No tricks, no slight of hand, simple accuracy.

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    I guess in my conversation with those who are JW I have recognized that the NWT reads differently, though not correct.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcon View Post
    Every individual who has become a member of Jehovah's Witnesses has improved their life. They're not tied down by the meaningless rituals and traditions of other religions. If rituals and traditions float your boat, then have at it. I have yet to find that Jesus, in his 33 years, participated in a single ritual or tradition. So, I chose to follow his lead.

    Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk
    Organized religion might be Judaism and Christianity. I am not Catholic. As for these religions yes Yeshua, Jesus, observed things like Passover and Chanukah. I believe that can be seen from the text of scripture. But there is organized religion where JWs would be included whereas I was told by one JW that JWs are not about Organized Religion. Seems pretty organized to me.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I have had the opportunity to be a part of a couple of real good churches that were not JW.
    I would guess that's because you agreed with everything they said. As Jehovah's Witnesses, we have to humble ourselves and accept what the Bible says ( not any man ) about any subject we are dealing with. If there is no biblical basis for the discussion, then it is personal opinion, and the Bible trumps personal opinion every time.

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    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcon View Post
    I would guess that's because you agreed with everything they said. As Jehovah's Witnesses, we have to humble ourselves and accept what the Bible says ( not any man ) about any subject we are dealing with. If there is no biblical basis for the discussion, then it is personal opinion, and the Bible trumps personal opinion every time.

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    Not much trouble with that. I found something in the Bible that was disagreed with. And another place I had my own comment for what was being said. Bad situation I wish it hadn't come up like that because though I believe I acted in good faith others may have been right in my ignorance. I still don't know.

    Matthew 5:17-20.
    The Orthodox Jew is good. But now the Orthodox say that they don't speak about Jesus while I knew someone who did speak of Yeshua though I do not know how well received he was. My understanding has been that the Orthodox observe God's commandments.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Organized religion might be Judaism and Christianity. I am not Catholic. As for these religions yes Yeshua, Jesus, observed things like Passover and Chanukah. I believe that can be seen from the text of scripture. But there is organized religion where JWs would be included whereas I was told by one JW that JWs are not about Organized Religion. Seems pretty organized to me.
    Maybe that Witness misunderstood your question or the context of your question. I don't know, I wasn't there. I do know, however that Jehovah's Witnesses are the most organized religion that I've ever been associated with. As for Jesus' participation in Jewish customs, these were approved by his Father and part of Jewish worship at the time.

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