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Thread: The Christian's Involvement In Governement

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Would it be godly to put a murderer to death? What does the Torah say?
    l must have missed the verses in the New Testament where Christ condoned "murder," if its done on behalf of the STATE!

    Are we operating under the assumption that God holds the STATE to a different moral standard than the individual - does "I was just following orders" absolve us from the responsibility for our actions?
    Last edited by jgarden; December 27th, 2018 at 12:23 AM.

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    Over 6000 post club Aimiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcon View Post
    For true Christians today, becoming involved in government shows a lack of faith in God and His Heavenly Kingdom's ( or Government's ) ability to solve every single problem plaguing mankind today.

    This involvement includes, but is not limited to, voting for individuals here on earth to try to solve man's problems, instead of patiently waiting for God Himself to do so.

    For those who think that waiting for Jehovah to step in and solve all of man's problems would be a waste of time, the Israelites benefited every time they relied on Jehovah to protect them and defeat their enemies. It is no different today.
    If you truly feel this way, then going to the grocery store (or planting crops, if you're a farmer) is un-belief because you should expect God to rain down Manna to feed you. You should never put on a bandage or even wash a wound, because you should expect God to just heal you. God doesn't want us to become Christian and then expect to float away to Heaven on a bed of flowers. He wants us to take heart in the fact that Jesus overcame death, hell and the grave but we still need to live for Him and strive to enter into the 'rest' that faith in His Word provides. He never promised that we wouldn't have problems to have to deal with every single day but did promise to be right there with us, every single second of every day. He is. His Presence overcomes all that has to do with putting our defeated enemy in his rightful place (under our feet) which He is constantly teaching us more about the meaning of His Words in that regard, not in ignoring that enemy or being too lazy or stupid to do anything about it. All that it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing. Had any good man in history taken your advice (Constantine, Washington, Lincoln or Kennedy as prime examples) this world would still belong to Satan and would be completely different than what we see today. Evil flourishes, but not because good men are doing nothing about it; rather, we're doing the best we can under God's Guidance and Leadership.
    People were not created with the ability to govern themselves. We were created to be in subjection to God. As our Creator, He has the absolute right to expect that we worship Him in a way that He approves.
    He certainly doesn't approve of laziness or ignorance. We need good strong Christian leadership. We need to have Christians in the military. We need to take part in our government. God designed this country to complete the Great Commission and we're going to see it through.
    No Bueno.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    What involvement if any should a Christian have in government?
    First and foremost: praying for all who have ANY authority whatsoever, so that all men might worship God in peace in their own way. Second: we should speak up against any and all injustice and take whatever office God directs us to fill. He wants strong Christian believers to be in authority.

    No Bueno.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarden View Post
    l must have missed the verses in the New Testament where Christ condoned "murder," if its done on behalf of the STATE!

    Are we operating under the assumption that God holds the STATE to a different moral standard than the individual - does "I was just following orders" absolve us from the responsibility for our actions?
    I am not talking about the state whatever that might mean. I am asking if you murder because you are not under the law. Not under the law means something, and it doesn't mean something else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    First and foremost: praying for all who have ANY authority whatsoever, so that all men might worship God in peace in their own way. Second: we should speak up against any and all injustice and take whatever office God directs us to fill. He wants strong Christian believers to be in authority.

    What if life isn't about taking authority? Just a question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    List of Jewish leaders in the Land of Israel
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...Land_of_Israel
    There were reasons that God approved of rulers and Kings in the time of the Israelites. Would you like to know what those were, according to the Bible?

    Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk

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    Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
    List of Jewish leaders in the Land of Israel
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...Land_of_Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by dcon View Post
    There were reasons that God approved of rulers and Kings in the time of the Israelites. Would you like to know what those were, according to the Bible?

    Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk
    You're singing a different tune from your earlier post:

    Quote Originally Posted by dcon View Post
    For those who think that waiting for Jehovah to step in and solve all of man's problems would be a waste of time, the Israelites benefited every time they relied on Jehovah to protect them and defeat their enemies...
    Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?
    Galatians 4:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
    List of Jewish leaders in the Land of Israel
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...Land_of_Israel



    You're singing a different tune from your earlier post:
    In Bible times, there were rulers or authorities that God put in place to govern His people in a way that He approved.
    Samuel anointed Saul as king after God had designated Saul as his choice. (1Sa 10:1) David was anointed as king on three different occasions: once by Samuel, later by the men of Judah, and finally by all the tribes. (1Sa 16:13; 2Sa 2:4; 5:3)
    There were and are rulers that God allows to keep the status quo, and also cause His will to be done.
    The rulers of the nations of earth exercise their limited rulership by the toleration or permission of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. That the political governments do not receive their authority from God, that is, that they are not acting by reason of any grant of authority or power from him, is shown at Revelation 13:1, 2, where the seven-headed, ten-horned wild beast is said to get “its power and its throne and great authority” from the Dragon, Satan the Devil.
    This is obvious as no government on earth today is influenced by God through His Word, the Bible. For example, though the U. S. is considered by many to be a ' Christian nation ', the fact is that it's simply not true. The majority of people could care less about what Jehovah requires of people who wish to call themselves Christians, which literally means footstep followers of Christ.

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    Philippians 3:20 KJV For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

    In the present dispensation of the grace of God, respective members of the body of Christ's citizenship is in heaven, and we are not to be involved with "foreign" politics.

    2 Corinthians 2 KJV
    18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

    Ambassadors represent their "Commander In Chief" in a foreign land, and as such, are not be involved in "local" politics, and only are to be focused on the delivering of their chief's message, not their own, in His stead.

    EOT. DOA.RIP. CLOSED.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Philippians 3:20 KJV For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

    In the present dispensation of the grace of God, respective members of the body of Christ's citizenship is in heaven, and we are not to be involved with "foreign" politics.

    2 Corinthians 2 KJV
    18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

    Ambassadors represent their "Commander In Chief" in a foreign land, and as such, are not be involved in "local" politics, and only are to be focused on the delivering of their chief's message, not their own, in His stead.

    EOT. DOA.RIP. CLOSED.
    In whatever a person does they should do it as unto God or for God's Kingdom. If they find themselves doing something else they are not doing the right thing. When a person gets a job they serve their boss but they can do so as unto God. In other words, they do what God wants them to do at work, which involves what their boss wants them to do. I have a school loan to pay. Then I wonder if I will want to have a boss.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    In whatever a person does they should do it as unto God or for God's Kingdom. If they find themselves doing something else they are not doing the right thing. When a person gets a job they serve their boss but they can do so as unto God. In other words, they do what God wants them to do at work, which involves what their boss wants them to do. I have a school loan to pay. Then I wonder if I will want to have a boss.
    Oh.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Oh.
    Thanks for acknowledging my post. I don't know what your oh means, but may I continue since you are listening? What if a boss is not a believer? It would be better for a boss to be a believer. But some people have to work. Different from only working at home on a farm or something.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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    Quote Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
    As much as possible. Otherwise you have a society shaped and run by the Godless and their immoralities.

    Western civilization and Law is ultimately based on Judeo-Christian culture and the Ten Commandments.
    Yeah, look how well that worked out for you.
    Didn't fulfill the Crusades either.

    It's like you're not aware that Christianity is apocalyptic, and that's why you choose to be spiteful and venomous like half this site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Thanks for acknowledging my post. I don't know what your oh means, but may I continue since you are listening? What if a boss is not a believer? It would be better for a boss to be a believer. But some people have to work. Different from only working at home on a farm or something.
    Oh.
    Saint John W

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to john w For Your Post:

    Jacob (December 29th, 2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcon View Post
    In Bible times, there were rulers or authorities that God put in place to govern His people in a way that He approved....
    Deuteronomy 1:13

    Exodus 18:21

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/choose
    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/select?s=t
    Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?
    Galatians 4:16

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