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Thread: Trump is right to fight for the border wall

  1. #46
    Over 5000 post club WizardofOz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    i looked at the article and didn't see where the DHS claimed that a 30–foot tall wall cannot be scaled and a tunnel cannot be built deeper than six feet below ground

    got a quote?

    Homeland Security specifications that it be either a solid concrete wall or a see–through structure, “physically imposing in height,” ideally 30 feet high but no less than 18 feet, sunk at least six feet into the ground to prevent tunneling under it; that it should not be scalable with even sophisticated climbing aids; and that it should withstand prolonged attacks with impact tools, cutting tools, and torches.



    Did you actually read the article?

    DHS is saying it should be at least six feet into the ground the prevent tunneling and fail to explain how it will not be scalable even with sophisticated climbing aids. As described, digging down six feet really isn't going to prevent many tunnels.


    Both prototypes call for a 30-foot-high-wall, though 18 feet may be acceptable, and one that is “aesthetically pleasing in color” — at least from the U.S. side.

    Omitted from the requests is the word “impenetrable” — a quality Trump vowed the wall would have. But the requests for proposals seemed to acknowledge that might not be possible.

    Instead, the requests say the prototypes must be able to withstand “for a minimum of 1 hour” efforts to breach it by punching, using a sledgehammer, or a “car jack, pick axe, chisel, battery operated impact tools, battery operated cutting tools, Oxy/acetylene torch or other similar hand-held tools.” The requests also say the wall must have anti-climbing devices and mechanisms to prevent tunneling under it to a depth of six feet.

    Here



    So, Brookings isn't just making this up.

    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    another annoyance from the article:


    Why the wall wouldn’t stop smuggling



    What is the author saying here? That the wall won't stop any smuggling? That the wall won't stop all smuggling?

    if the former, it's a lie

    if the latter, another strawman

    either way, either lazy thinking or deliberate misrepresentation

    disappointing for the brookings institute
    Actually, it's a rebuttal to actual Trump quotes: President Donald Trump says that his proposed wall along the Mexico border “will stop much of the drugs from pouring into this country.”

    “The drugs are pouring in at levels like nobody has ever seen,” Trump said. “We’ll be able to stop them once the wall is up.”

    Vanda Felbab-Brown is simply saying building a wall wouldn't stop it like Trump has claimed it would. So, the imprecise language used originated with Trump. We need to ask him to clarify; will the wall stop some smuggling? How much smuggling with it stop?

    He needs to clarify what he's claiming this wall will do or why he thinks it would stop "much of the drugs from pouring in".

    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    you don't imagine they were filled in?
    I imagine two are dug for every one discovered and destroyed.

    Nancy?
    This is what frustrates me. Pelosi was an idiot for saying that. She also is an idiot in general. She was rightly criticized. Now, Trump supporters are blindly following his plan to build a wall and attacking anyone who has legitimate questions and concerns about the long-term effectiveness of this rather expensive plan.
    “To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

    ― Theodore Roosevelt

    Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem

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  3. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardofOz View Post
    Homeland Security specifications that it be either a solid concrete wall or a see–through structure, “physically imposing in height,” ideally 30 feet high but no less than 18 feet, sunk at least six feet into the ground to prevent tunneling under it; that it should not be scalable with even sophisticated climbing aids; and that it should withstand prolonged attacks with impact tools, cutting tools, and torches.



    Did you actually read the article?

    DHS is saying it should be at least six feet into the ground the prevent tunneling and fail to explain how it will not be scalable even with sophisticated climbing aids. As described, digging down six feet really isn't going to prevent many tunnels.


    Both prototypes call for a 30-foot-high-wall, though 18 feet may be acceptable, and one that is “aesthetically pleasing in color” — at least from the U.S. side.

    Omitted from the requests is the word “impenetrable” — a quality Trump vowed the wall would have. But the requests for proposals seemed to acknowledge that might not be possible.

    Instead, the requests say the prototypes must be able to withstand “for a minimum of 1 hour” efforts to breach it by punching, using a sledgehammer, or a “car jack, pick axe, chisel, battery operated impact tools, battery operated cutting tools, Oxy/acetylene torch or other similar hand-held tools.” The requests also say the wall must have anti-climbing devices and mechanisms to prevent tunneling under it to a depth of six feet.

    Here



    So, Brookings isn't just making this up.
    they quote some little bits and then paraphrase most of it - i'd prefer to see the original from DHS than the author's paraphrase

    he does slip up here, when he paraphrases this: "to prevent tunneling under it to a depth of six feet"

    that's very different than the DHS saying, as he implies, that a six foot depth will stop all tunnels

    also, a bit disingenuous to bury in the text of the article the following: "the wall must have anti-climbing devices" after suggesting in a headline that "the DHS believes that a 30–foot tall wall cannot be scaled"

    looks to me like DHS does indeed realize that a plain unadorned wall can be scaled


    so, more strawmen from the brookings institute

    it's a shame to see them stoop to this level - I used to respect their work

    but then i used to respect the work done by those disgusting scumbags at the southern poverty law center

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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardofOz View Post
    Vanda Felbab-Brown is simply saying building a wall wouldn't stop it like Trump has claimed it would.
    i would expect that a wall would stop most if not all of the cross border drug smuggling that currently occurs where there is no wall/fence/effective border security

    and i'm sure that DHS understands that drug smugglers won't just stop, they'll look for other ways to bring drugs cross-border, ways that aren't as easy as just walking or driving it across an open border

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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardofOz View Post
    Trump supporters are blindly following his plan to build a wall and attacking anyone who has legitimate questions and concerns about the long-term effectiveness of this rather expensive plan.

    if those legitimate questions come from DHS or border patrol or local LEA in the border states, i'm willing to listen

    if they just come from the usual retarded trump haters on the left, i don't care

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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardofOz View Post
    Did you actually read the article?......
    I don't read anything you post. Your track record of ignorance and stupidity is too far and wide for me to ever waste my time.




    Quote Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
    Border Patrol Chief: 'We Certainly Need a Wall, Any Agent Will Tell You That'

    The head of the U.S. Border Patrol said Sen. Chuck Schumer, Sen. Bernie Sanders and others on the left are incorrect when they claim a wall is not a useful tool to stop illegal immigration.

    "We certainly do need a wall. Talk to any border agent and they will tell you that," Chief Carla Provost said on "Your World."

    Schumer, the Senate Minority Leader, clashed with Trump Monday in a televised Oval Office meeting, and dismissed the idea of funding a border wall.

    Provost said that, pending the $5 billion appropriation championed by President Trump, she has "prioritized" the locations where walls should be built along the 1,954-mile border with Mexico.

  8. #51
    Gold level Subscriber drbrumley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
    I don't read anything you post. Your track record of ignorance and stupidity is too far and wide for me to ever waste my time.
    says one of the dumbest ones here....
    The state — whatever its particular forms — always expresses itself as a collective form of property ownership. All political systems are socialistic, in that they are premised upon the subservience of individual interests to collective authority. Communism, fascism, lesser forms of state socialism, and welfarism, are all premised upon the state’s usurpation of privately-owned property. Whether one chooses to be aligned with the political "Left," "Right," or "Middle," comes down to nothing more than a preference for a particular franchise of state socialism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drbrumley View Post
    says one of the dumbest ones here....
    Talking to yourself again? I have more intelligence in my toe then you'll ever have.

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    Wondering if walls work? Since Israel put up their border wall, illeagal immigration and suicide bombings have gone to...ZERO.
    American lives matter too; build the wall!


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    that's apples and oranges - you're comparing a wall that works to a wall that won't work

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    missed this one - re tunnels:
    Quote Originally Posted by WizardofOz View Post



    I imagine two are dug for every one discovered and destroyed.
    and what is the cost of a tunnel compared to a pickup traveling across a poorly monitored stretch of border?

    answer: high

    nobody thinks putting up a wall will stop the laws of supply and demand, but it will force smugglers to work harder and to use methods that are easier to combat

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    A Better Solution Than Trump’s Border Wall
    The walls of empty text put up by TOL leftists. No one could bear it. Perhaps round the clock broadcasts of Danoh's disingenuousness. Wouldn't even need to be translated; the supercilious tone would cause anyone to turn around.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
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    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
    As shutdown continues, Trump is right to fight for the border wall – Our national security demands it]
    Just another example of conservatives engaging in "bait and switch" - it was the Mexicans who were supposed to pay for the wall, not the "stupid US taxpayer!"

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    They're having to deal with the caravans. That's a good thing.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
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    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    They're having to deal with the caravans. That's a good thing.
    It appears they are dealing with the caravans by just letting them through.

    Over 500 migrants to be dropped off in El Paso through network of hospitality sites, nonprofit says

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    The last I'd heard, Tijuana was ticked off because they weren't getting through and Mexico was stuck having to put up with them.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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