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Thread: Hermeneutics - The Who? What? Where? and When? of Scripture

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
    Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
    If you check the Hebrew, you will find that the daughters of "men" are really the daughters of Adam.

    of men h120 אָדָם 'adam

    Learn to read what is written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    If you check the Hebrew, you will find that the daughters of "men" are really the daughters of Adam.

    of men h120 אָדָם 'adam

    The man (a man) in Gen 1 in Hebrew is H120.

    The man God named Adam in Gen 2 is H121.

    In Gen 6-2 daughters of man (H120) is used.

    I am not one that can translate Hebrew, so I must go with the fact that someone fluent in Hebrew translated the scriptures properly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
    Another point of understanding is: Believe everything that is written, for example.

    Mat_13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

    Believe it, even though it is a parable. Start your search. Don't be afraid to ask a question.
    The passage where this verse is found completely destroys the teaching of the Preterists because the Lord Jesus tells us exactly what will happen at the " end of the age":

    "He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father" (Mt.13:38-43).

    According to the Lord Jesus at the "end of the age" there will be a world wide harvest when all of those who do evil will be taken out of the world. Since this has never happened then we know that " the end of the age" remains in the future.

    The Lord Jesus' disciples asked Him the following question on the Mount of Olives:

    "As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?
    (Mt.24:3).

    The Lord Jesus told them things which would happen at the "end of the age" and we know that the things which will happen at the " end of the age" have not yet come to pass. On the other hand, the Preterists teach that the Lord Jesus' answer in regard His disciple's question has already happened, and it happened in 70AD!

    The Preterists need to do a word study of the meaning of the Greek word kosmos, which is the word the Lord Jesus used when He said that "The field is the world (kosmos)."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The passage where this verse is found completely destroys the teaching of the Preterists because the Lord Jesus tells us exactly what will happen at the " end of the age":

    "He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father" (Mt.13:38-43).

    According to the Lord Jesus at the "end of the age" there will be a world wide harvest when all of those who do evil will be taken out of the world. Since this has never happened then we know that " the end of the age" remains in the future.

    The Lord Jesus' disciples asked Him the following question on the Mount of Olives:

    "As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?
    (Mt.24:3).

    The Lord Jesus told them things which would happen at the "end of the age" and we know that the things which will happen at the " end of the age" have not yet come to pass. On the other hand, the Preterists teach that the Lord Jesus' answer in regard His disciple's question has already happened, and it happened in 70AD!

    The Preterists need to do a word study of the meaning of the Greek word kosmos, which is the word the Lord Jesus used when He said that "The field is the world (kosmos)."
    I have changed my view because of the scriptures you have shown. However, I am still a partial preterist since I believe that the end of the age of Law, or the end of the world as they knew it, was completed in 70 AD with the destruction of the temple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
    The man (a man) in Gen 1 in Hebrew is H120.

    The man God named Adam in Gen 2 is H121.

    In Gen 6-2 daughters of man (H120) is used.

    I am not one that can translate Hebrew, so I must go with the fact that someone fluent in Hebrew translated the scriptures properly.
    From Genesis 1 אָדָם translated as "man"
    From Genesis 2 אָדָם translated as "Adam"
    also from Genesis 2 הָֽאָדָם translated as "Adam" (addition of הָֽ, which means "the" as in "the man")

    You can go to someone that can translate Hebrew, but that will not change the unalterable fact that the exact same Hebrew word is used in all instances.
    אָדָם translated as "man" and אָדָם translated as "Adam" are interchangeable.
    Learn to read what is written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    From Genesis 1 אָדָם translated as "man"
    From Genesis 2 אָדָם translated as "Adam"
    also from Genesis 2 הָֽאָדָם translated as "Adam" (addition of הָֽ, which means "the" as in "the man")

    You can go to someone that can translate Hebrew, but that will not change the unalterable fact that the exact same Hebrew word is used in all instances.
    אָדָם translated as "man" and אָדָם translated as "Adam" are interchangeable.
    Is the word really the same? One is speaking of mankind and the other is speaking of the one named 'Adam'. For understanding, as you have done, Adam is capitalized and the other is not. The scripture says ,man, or mankind, not the man named Adam, who is the son of God.

    Why is it when the scripture is plain, it isn't believed? It seems that one would rather believe that fallen spirits, angels, are taking wives of mankind. That is what doesn't make sense because angels lack the tools and that has to be for a reason.

    Mar 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
    Is the word really the same?
    Yes, the word is really the same, the difference comes only in translations.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
    One is speaking of mankind and the other is speaking of the one named 'Adam'. For understanding, as you have done, Adam is capitalized and the other is not. The scripture says ,man, or mankind, not the man named Adam, who is the son of God.
    The translators made the changes you are relying upon.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
    Why is it when the scripture is plain, it isn't believed? It seems that one would rather believe that fallen spirits, angels, are taking wives of mankind.
    That is the plain meaning of the text, which is why so many people believe that is what the verse means.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
    That is what doesn't make sense because angels lack the tools and that has to be for a reason.

    Mar 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
    The angels do not marry, but that does not mean that the angels are incapable of fathering children:

    Genesis 6:4 EXB (Expanded Bible)
    4 The ·Nephilim [L fallen ones; C the significance of the name is unclear] were on the earth in those days and also later. That was when the sons of God ·had sexual relations with [L came in to] the daughters of ·human beings [T man; C Hebrew: Adam; 1:27–28]. These women gave birth to children ·who became famous [L men of a name] and were the mighty warriors of long ago. [C The Nephilim of Num. 13:31–33, though not related genealogically, were giants, suggesting these pre-flood Nephilim were also.]

    Learn to read what is written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Yes, the word is really the same, the difference comes only in translations.


    The translators made the changes you are relying upon.

    That is the plain meaning of the text, which is why so many people believe that is what the verse means.
    The translator meanings that I rely upon are the ones that are in the Bible. As a Christian I believe it is the word of God, as written. I have personally never found a scripture that is untrue. Maybe I didn't understand it at first, but that didn't make it untrue.

    God's word says that the sons of God were of the man named Adam, not the men created in Gen 1, and certainly not angels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
    I have changed my view because of the scriptures you have shown. However, I am still a partial preterist since I believe that the end of the age of Law, or the end of the world as they knew it, was completed in 70 AD with the destruction of the temple.
    So are you saying that the term "end of the age" meant something different than the way the Lord Jesus used it at Matthew 13 than the way the Lord's disciples used it at Matthew 24:3?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    So are you saying that the term "end of the age" meant something different than the way the Lord Jesus used it at Matthew 13 than the way the Lord's disciples used it at Matthew 24:3?
    Just felt that either the end of the age or the end of the world as they knew it. That is because age of law ended in 70 AD. Relates to the time that God told his children to go into the promise land and because they didn't believe they could take the land. God kept them from entering for 40 years, until that generation had passed away. Jesus witnessed to his people in Jerusalem and because some would not except him' he kept them in the age of law, which would end in 40 years. Jesus was around 30 years old when crucified plus 40 years to the end of that generation. That would make it 70 AD and that was when the temple was totally destroyed. I also believe it was considered the last day and the dead children of Israel were raised and judged.

    Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
    The translator meanings that I rely upon are the ones that are in the Bible. As a Christian I believe it is the word of God, as written. I have personally never found a scripture that is untrue. Maybe I didn't understand it at first, but that didn't make it untrue.

    God's word says that the sons of God were of the man named Adam, not the men created in Gen 1, and certainly not angels.
    Not quite.
    Claiming that "the sons of God were of the man named Adam" is your interpretation that comes from you attempting to assign a meaning that you can accept to a phrase that has no clearly defined meaning.

    To do this, you are taking a verse from the New Testament (Luke 3:38) and attempting to apply it to the verses in Genesis.
    The biggest problem with this is that there is no historical proof that anyone writing in the Old Testament thought Adam was the son of God, and there is no historical proof that anyone thought that the sons of God mentioned in Genesis were sons of Adam until several centuries after the New Testament was written.

    There are three common beliefs about what "the sons of God" meant in Genesis.
    Please notice that the second and third belief come about only after rejecting the first and oldest belief.
    The people that invented the second and third belief could not accept the common belief, so they came up with their own versions, despite the lack of any historical evidence to support their newly invented beliefs.


    The Sons of God

    The first, and oldest, belief is that " the sons of God " were fallen angels who consorted with human women, producing giant offspring called nephilim (Heb. נפלים). This view was widely held in the world of the first century, and was supported by Flavius Josephus, Philo, Eusebius and many of the "Ante-Nicene Fathers," including Justin Martyr, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Tertullian, Irenaeus, Athenagoras and Commodianus.

    The second view is one which was first suggested by Julius Africanus and later advocated by Saint Augustine, the Catholic Bishop of Hippo. Augustine rejected the concept of the fallen host having committed fornication with women. In his early fifth century book The City of God, he promoted the theory that " the sons of God " simply referred to the genealogical line of Seth, who were committed to preserving the true worship of God. He interpreted Genesis 6 to mean that the male offspring of Adam through Seth were " the sons of God ," and the female offspring of Adam through Cain were "the daughters of men." He wrote that the problem was that the family of Seth had interbred with the family of Cain, intermingling the bloodlines and corrupting the pure religion. This view has become the dominant one among most modern biblical scholars.

    The third view is that " the sons of God " were the sons of pre-Flood rulers or magistrates. This belief became the standard explanation of rabbinical Judaism after Rabbi Simeon ben Yochai pronounced a curse in the second century CE upon those Jews who believed the common teaching that the angels were responsible for the nephilim. This interpretation was advocated by two of the most respected Jewish sages of the Middle Ages, Rabbi Shlomo Yitzchaki (Rashi) and Rabbi Moshe ben Nachman (Nachmanides), and became the standard explanation of rabbinical Judaism. However, it is not widely accepted by modern scholars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
    Just felt that either the end of the age or the end of the world as they knew it.
    The way that his disciples knew what the "end of the age" meant was according to what the Lord Jesus said about it at Matthew 13.

    If you believe what the Lord Jesus said there about the "end of the age" then you should know that the end of the age will not happen until there is a world wide harvest when all those who do evil will be taken out of the world. That has not happened.

    All you are doing is denying what the Lord Jesus said about what would happen then and putting a different meaning than the Lord's meaning of the "end of the age."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The way that his disciples knew what the "end of the age" meant was according to what the Lord Jesus said about it at Matthew 13.

    If you believe what the Lord Jesus said there about the "end of the age" then you should know that the end of the age will not happen until there is a world wide harvest when all those who do evil will be taken out of the world. That has not happened.

    All you are doing is denying what the Lord Jesus said about what would happen then and putting a different meaning than the Lord's meaning of the "end of the age."
    Luk 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

    Jesus came to fulfill all that had been written of him. This happened, and it ended the age of Law.

    Jesus spoke in parables to explain other things that would happen, the wheat and the tares is the one you make mention of. I use to think that had already happen, but the truth is there are tares still in existence today.

    Jesus shall return, and he will separate the tares from the wheat and burn them. Then he will set up his kingdom that will be forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
    Jesus shall return, and he will separate the tares from the wheat and burn them. Then he will set up his kingdom that will be forever.
    Since that has not yet happened we know that the "end of the age" has not yet come to pass and the kingdom age is not here yet. We know that because only those who are "born again" can enter the kingdom (Jn.3:3-4) and the world is full of people who are not born again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Since that has not yet happened we know that the "end of the age" has not yet come to pass and the kingdom age is not here yet. We know that because only those who are "born again" can enter the kingdom (Jn.3:3-4) and the world is full of people who are not born again.
    The age of Law has ended. We are in the age of Grace and according to biblical info I have read, this age is just about over.

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