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Thread: Hermeneutics - The Who? What? Where? and When? of Scripture

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    Hermeneutics - The Who? What? Where? and When? of Scripture

    Understanding scripture is hard work, but the first thing one must do is believe what the scripture says regardless of anybody's opinion. To do this we need help. Using a bible program does a lot of the work for you and is the best way for study.

    There is a free download King James version which is very good. This is one way to use it.

    Let's say we want to know about Abraham. We enter his name, and then every scripture that has 'Abraham' in it shows up in full. From those scriptures will come another word or person that results in another search, and so on. The truth and confirmation will appear because they will all agree.

    If you don't have an on-line bible, here is the web page for one I know of.


    https://e-sword.net/downloads.html

    I will give examples later and or help if needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
    Understanding scripture is hard work, but the first thing one must do is believe what the scripture says regardless of anybody's opinion. To do this we need help. Using a bible program does a lot of the work for you and is the best way for study.

    There is a free download King James version which is very good. This is one way to use it.

    Let's say we want to know about Abraham. We enter his name, and then every scripture that has 'Abraham' in it shows up in full. From those scriptures will come another word or person that results in another search, and so on. The truth and confirmation will appear because they will all agree.

    If you don't have an on-line bible, here is the web page for one I know of.


    https://e-sword.net/downloads.html

    I will give examples later and or help if needed.
    It hasn't helped you in any way.
    I know Him, correctly, as Messiah whom you call Christ. Yah Shua whom you call Jesus. Messianists who you call Christians.

    "Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm".

    I refuse, point blank, to speak peace to the unregenerate, hypocrites, religious dogma lovers and those that oppose the following statement:
    A regenerate man trusts in the evangelism of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed justness of Messiah alone.
    If you are fully persuaded, by experience, of this delightful, beautiful and life giving doctrine then I love you as a brother.

    Anyone who thinks that salvation is conditioned on anything a man thinks, does or says is atheist. I cannot and will not speak peace to him or her.

    I don't make statements online that I wouldn't repeat in front of my Maker, my grandmother or a judge.

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    Another point of understanding is: Believe everything that is written, for example.

    Mat_13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

    Believe it, even though it is a parable. Start your search. Don't be afraid to ask a question.

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    Below is a pretty quick truth. Searched 'sons of God' to find who the 'sons of God' were.

    Gen_6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
    The 'sons of God' took the daughters of men for wives.

    Job_1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
    The 'sons of God came before the Lord' and 'Satan came also'
    Job_2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
    The 'sons of God came before the Lord' and 'Satan came also'
    This is where people get that the angels were to sons of God, but the above doesn't say anything for sure.
    Job_38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

    Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
    Php_2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
    1Jn_3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
    1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

    Luk_3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God
    This scripture makes it a truth that the sons of God that took wives of men were Adam's children, grandchildren, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
    Below is a pretty quick truth. Searched 'sons of God' to find who the 'sons of God' were.

    Gen_6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
    The 'sons of God' took the daughters of men for wives.

    Job_1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
    The 'sons of God came before the Lord' and 'Satan came also'
    Job_2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
    The 'sons of God came before the Lord' and 'Satan came also'
    This is where people get that the angels were to sons of God, but the above doesn't say anything for sure.
    Job_38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

    Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
    Php_2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
    1Jn_3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
    1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

    Luk_3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God
    This scripture makes it a truth that the sons of God that took wives of men were Adam's children, grandchildren, etc.
    Only someone forever stuck on amateur mode does a word study in that way.

    The proper way is to add to the study of any similar word and or phrase, the tracking down and studying out also, of other words and or phrases in any particular passage.

    Followed by adding to that, the tracking down and studying out of other places throughout the Scripture where similar contexts, themes etc., are found.

    All of which together, results in a much more fuller understanding of any one word, phrase, and or its different uses.

    Such is a much better way of attempting to understand the things of God through His Word.

    Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

    Isaiah 8:20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Only someone forever stuck on amateur mode does a word study in that way.

    The proper way is to add to the study of any similar word and or phrase, the tracking down and studying out also, of other words and or phrases in any particular passage.

    Followed by adding to that, the tracking down and studying out of other places throughout the Scripture where similar contexts, themes etc., are found.

    All of which together, results in a much more fuller understanding of any one word, phrase, and or its different uses.

    Such is a much better way of attempting to understand the things of God through His Word.

    Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

    Isaiah 8:20
    If you are saying that my post is wrong about the sons of God being Adam and his children then show me by scripture who the sons of God are. If you can, I will be happy to accept your criticism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
    If you are saying that my post is wrong about the sons of God being Adam and his children then show me by scripture who the sons of God are. If you can, I will be happy to accept your criticism.
    Try the approach I suggested, see what added insight and or refinement to your understanding that yields.

    Then we'll talk about those passages.

    In other words, Nehemiah 8:8.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Try the approach I suggested, see what added insight and or refinement to your understanding that yields.

    Then we'll talk about those passages.

    In other words, Nehemiah 8:8.
    This is my thread, answer my question. According to scripture are the son's of God, Adam and his children?

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    The fact that the sons of God (Adam’s children) took the daughter’s of men for wives brought up another point.

    Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

    If there were sons of God there would also be daughters of God. So where did the daughters of men come from?

    Let’s take a look at Gen 1 and Gen 2.

    Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
    Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:

    How were they going to replenish the earth? With children of course.

    God created mankind in Gen 1. Now notice, LORD God (covenant God) created Adam.

    Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
    Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

    Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
    Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good

    Gen_2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
    Gen_2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
    In Gen 1 God created from the earth while in Gen 2 He created from the field. So, what is the difference? Earth is world wide, while a field is like a farm or as God said, a garden. The animals in Gen 1 were wild animals, those in Gen 2 were domesticated animals. Cows, chickens, dogs, horses, etc.
    The point is that the daughters of men were those created in Gen 1.
    Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

    God wasn’t looking for a help meet from the animals, he was looking for a help meet for Adam from the females created in Gen 1.

    Two separate creations. Now Gen 6:2 makes more sense.

    Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

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    The book of Revelation has always been subject to many theories. Here are a few scriptures in Rev and the comparison from the Old Testament.
    You can use the King James bible that you could have down loaded for free, to search for more than the below.

    Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

    Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

    Compare
    Rev 4:6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
    Rev 4:7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.

    To
    Eze 1:10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle

    Compare
    Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
    Rev 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
    Rev 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
    Rev 6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
    Rev 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
    Rev 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
    Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

    To
    Zec 6:2 In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses;
    Zec 6:3 And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses.


    Compare
    Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
    Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

    To
    Zec 4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.


    Compare
    Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

    To
    Dan 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.


    Compare
    Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

    To
    Gen 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
    Gen 37:10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?


    Compare
    Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
    Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
    Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

    To
    Isa 60:11 Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.

    Isa 60:19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
    Isa 60:20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended
    .

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    Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
    Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
    Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
    Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

    God told the the people he created in Gen 1 to replenish the earth and that their food would be from the trees only.

    Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
    Here God is saying that there was no rain and nobody to till the ground and that is because in Gen 1, as we have seen, those people would eat from the trees only.

    Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
    Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food;
    The trees in the garden was also good for food,

    Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
    Adam would live in the garden and would dress it and keep it.

    Dress ( hebrew)aw-bad'
    A primitive root; to work (in any sense); by implication to serve, till, (causatively) enslave, etc
    Keep (Hebrew)shaw-mar'
    A primitive root; properly to hedge about (as with thorns), that is, guard; generally to protect, attend to, etc.:
    So, in review, in Gen 1 the fruit of the trees would be for mankind. In Gen 2 God gave them trees for food, but also the ground for plants where Adam could grow food.
    Two different creations, two different food supplies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
    Another point of understanding is: Believe everything that is written, for example.

    Mat_13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

    Believe it, even though it is a parable. Start your search. Don't be afraid to ask a question.
    Your quote left out some important things: Matt 13: 37 He replied, ďThe One who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed represents the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. Did you pare them out because you had a hard time believing them? How can sown mean create...?

    even though it is a parable. - This is NOT THE PARABLE - this is the EXPLANATION of the parable...plain facts, no metaphor or allegory at all! And it uses the word SOWN for our amusement over what do do with it... and you suggest we Believe everything that is written, for example.
    I Champion GODís holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ttruscott View Post
    Your quote left out some important things: Matt 13: 37 He replied, “The One who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed represents the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. Did you pare them out because you had a hard time believing them? How can sown mean create...?

    even though it is a parable. - This is NOT THE PARABLE - this is the EXPLANATION of the parable...plain facts, no metaphor or allegory at all! And it uses the word SOWN for our amusement over what do do with it... and you suggest we Believe everything that is written, for example.
    You have the right idea, but even when the parable explains some things, it might still raise another question, like 'who are the sons of the evil one'? Again, according to scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
    You have the right idea, but even when the parable explains some things, it might still raise another question, like 'who are the sons of the evil one'? Again, according to scripture.
    I do not like Socratic questioning...I believe the sons of the evil one are the eternally fallen, that is, people who sinned the unforgivable sin who have never put their faith in YHWH or the Son ever and so who are condemned already, Jn 13:18.
    I Champion GODís holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

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