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Thread: John 20:28 and the Trinity

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    I'm sorry, I didn't follow that.
    The interpretation that I know is that Thomas was proclaiming Jesus to be His Lord and God, saying that Jesus is God. Then there were the JWs who said that he was saying that Jesus is Lord and His God was Thomas' God. I have seen Thomas' words as an exclamation. But I am not a JW so I do not follow their interpretation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Jesus is the Word made flesh. The Word was with God and the Word was God.

    Difficult to say Jesus is God come in the flesh.
    Why is it difficult to say, you just said it?


    Who was with God before the world began?
    Who do you think the "us" and "our" refers to?

    Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    You said, above, that the Word who became flesh was with God and was God, so clearly the Word was there.

    And the Holy Spirit was there.

    Gen. 1:1b And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

    So that means that God, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit were all there.

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    way 2 go (December 28th, 2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Your confusion is common. It's been brainwashed into mainstream Christianity for about 18 centuries.
    Jesus DID raise up, AFTER his God had resurrected him from the dead, the tomb, hell.
    Jesus DID "take up his life again", AFTER his God had resurrected him from the dead, the tomb, hell.


    Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead)


    Acts 13:30-37 But God raised him from the dead:
    31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
    32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
    33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that He hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art My Son, this day have I begotten thee.
    34 And as concerning that He raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
    35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
    36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
    37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.




    Acts 17:30-31 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
    31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.




    Rom 10:9
    9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


    You are in serious jeopardy, since you reject the "Jesus" preached in Scriptures, and that his God raised him from the dead.


    Eph 1:17-20 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
    18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of His calling, and what the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
    19 And what is the exceeding greatness of His power to usward who believe, according to the working of His mighty power,
    20 Which He wrought in Christ, when He raised him from the dead, and set him at His own right hand in the heavenly places,




    Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.




    1 Peter 1:19-21 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
    20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
    21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.



    Cherry pickin' Charlie is at it again. When you read the word God, you only see the Father, but God is triune. Jesus said quite clearly that He would raise Himself, and you insist on calling Him a liar.

    You do that because you have convinced yourself that there was no OUR in the Genesis chapter 1...accusing God of lying once again. I have no pity for you. You've been told, and now you're here preaching your evil teaching to whomever will take your bait. Not good for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    That's a VERY comforting ratio!

    Matt 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.


    Matt 7:13-15 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
    14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
    15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

    You think I have a "hiss" .... I think you have a howl.
    Still preaching law, I see. Suits you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Cherry pickin' Charlie is at it again. When you read the word God, you only see the Father, but God is triune.
    Says no Scripture ever.
    But Paul states that ANY "Jesus" other than the apostles PREACHED, is deception. You have yet to provide ANY example of your "Jesus" being preached to ANY audience, ANYWHERE in Scripture.
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz
    Jesus said quite clearly that He would raise Himself, and you insist on calling Him a liar.
    No, Jesus isn't a liar. Intentionally Misrepresenting my words IS a lie.
    Jesus most certainly DID raise up, just as soon as his God had resurrected him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Still preaching law, I see. Suits you.
    Thank you.
    I am pleased that you recognize Jesus' commandments as Law ..... and you bet I am still preaching his commandments.
    John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me

    John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.


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    Over 5000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Thomas didn't believe Jesus had been resurrected. He said he WOULDN'T believe, unless he handled the wounds. Jesus proved to Thomas, that his God had resurrected his Lord. Thomas then exclaimed praise for BOTH, his God, and his Lord.

    NOTHING in the context indicates Jesus and Thomas were discussing whether Jesus was GOD, or not! Thomas' remark MUST be interpreted by the context.

    Does that help?
    Funny how John doesn't record it like that if that was what he meant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Funny how John doesn't record it like that if that was what he meant.
    You are the one who does not know the contextual reading.

    You read everything into to suit your man-made doctrine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    You are the one who does not know the contextual reading.

    You read everything into to suit your man-made doctrine.
    A false accusation from the one that actually does that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    A false accusation from the one that actually does that.
    most of you are much worse than Rosen.

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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    most of you are much worse than Rosen.
    No, you are worse.

    See how that works?
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    The interpretation that I know is that Thomas was proclaiming Jesus to be His Lord and God, saying that Jesus is God. Then there were the JWs who said that he was saying that Jesus is Lord and His God was Thomas' God. I have seen Thomas' words as an exclamation. But I am not a JW so I do not follow their interpretation.
    There is nothing in the context to support Thomas' "CALLING" Jesus "my God". That is an invention built upon non-scriptural concepts and terminology. This is proven by VAST quantities of other Scriptures, including Jesus' words in the 17th verse of this text;

    John 20:17 ... say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

    The only OTHER reference to "my God" in this context is Christ's God! THAT is the ONLY "my God".

    I'm not a JW either, but they do have a couple of doctrines correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Funny how John doesn't record it like that if that was what he meant.
    1) John DID NOT SAY "and Thomas' CALLED Jesus; my Lord and my God.
    2) The fact that John's record establishes the topic as,
    John 20:24-25 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
    25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.


    Gives us clear context to Thomas' reply to the proof Jesus had just provided.

    3) So, the verse simply does NOT state your position, and it is MUCH better interpreted in the light of the context, as Thomas praising both Jesus, and Jesus' God who raised him.
    4) So, your conclusion is purely based on 18 Centuries of brainwashing..... NOT on the actual statements and explanations found in the Scriptures.

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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    There is nothing in the context to support Thomas' "CALLING" Jesus "my God". That is an invention built upon non-scriptural concepts and terminology. This is proven by VAST quantities of other Scriptures, including Jesus' words in the 17th verse of this text;

    John 20:17 ... say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

    The only OTHER reference to "my God" in this context is Christ's God! THAT is the ONLY "my God".

    I'm not a JW either, but they do have a couple of doctrines correct.
    Jesus is BOTH God and man.... as a MAN Jesus can talk about having a God as He was an Israelite according to the flesh.

    (Rom 1:3 KJV) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    glorydaz (December 28th, 2018),steko (December 28th, 2018),Tambora (December 29th, 2018),way 2 go (December 28th, 2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    You are the one who does not know the contextual reading.

    You read everything into to suit your man-made doctrine.
    Sniping does not become you, and arguing from ignorance for the sake of arguing is not the gospel of peace. If I have "man-made" doctrine, why don't you attempt to define that doctrine then? State it here and see if you can do so without mistake. You've never asked questions so I doubt you understand what you oppose.

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