User Tag List

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 28 of 28

Thread: Becoming a Judge while believing the gospel.

  1. #16
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    15,973
    Thanks
    54
    Thanked 685 Times in 635 Posts

    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    122744
    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    I do not understand what you are saying.
    It's okay because I did not make sure of that.

  2. #17
    Old Timer
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Under the Hill and Over the Hedge
    Posts
    483
    Thanks
    174
    Thanked 317 Times in 218 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    111440
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    All of this to say that yes if there is another court for that (read in the thread) there might also be allowance for religion or religious principles in our founding...
    Yes, the First Amendment is the primary result of such allowances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    ...that should be considered even as we say that a Christian cannot be a judge (false, right?) or that an individual person should not be concerned with being or becoming a judge when their religious views are involved.
    This is incorrect and if you are aware of such a case then you should rightly protest it. The Constitution strictly forbids denying someone a position in office (this includes judges) based solely on their religious beliefs. Article VI, Clause 3, No Religious Test Clause.

    It was this and the First Amendment that led to the Supreme Court to rule in Torcaso v. Watkins that
    We repeat and again reaffirm that neither a State nor the Federal Government can constitutionally force a person "to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion." Neither can constitutionally pass laws or impose requirements which aid all religions as against non-believers, and neither can aid those religions based on a belief in the existence of God as against those religions founded on different beliefs
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Well, I say that a Jew or a Christian can have their religious convictions and predispositions. And one might become a judge. This is really no problem. It is not a problem.
    Correct.

  3. #18
    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Heavenly Places
    Posts
    17,751
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 12,366 Times in 8,607 Posts

    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147854
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    It's okay because I did not make sure of that.
    I do not understand what you mean.
    Saint John W

  4. #19
    Old Timer
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Under the Hill and Over the Hedge
    Posts
    483
    Thanks
    174
    Thanked 317 Times in 218 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    111440
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    How you live and what judgment you make might be different, yes or no?
    Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Can you be consistent with what you believe?
    Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    And, to what standard?
    I would assume the standard that you hold yourself to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Do you believe that we can go no higher in law than God's Law?
    What would be higher than that? But in the context of this discussion, the question is of little relevance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Thank you for your comments. What is your contention? You have spoken of US law.
    I grew up in the US and US law is what I have to work with. In the US, the courts are secular institutions that operate inside the context of the US Constitution, US Code, State Constitutions and State codes. The religious views of a judge are not relevant under this system as long as they operate inside that context. The same system forbids the banning or denying a judge their office based solely on their belief or not in the Gospel.

  5. #20
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    15,973
    Thanks
    54
    Thanked 685 Times in 635 Posts

    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    122744
    Quote Originally Posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    Yes, the First Amendment is the primary result of such allowances.



    This is incorrect and if you are aware of such a case then you should rightly protest it. The Constitution strictly forbids denying someone a position in office (this includes judges) based solely on their religious beliefs. Article VI, Clause 3, No Religious Test Clause.

    It was this and the First Amendment that led to the Supreme Court to rule in Torcaso v. Watkins that




    Correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    Yes



    Yes



    I would assume the standard that you hold yourself to.



    What would be higher than that? But in the context of this discussion, the question is of little relevance.



    I grew up in the US and US law is what I have to work with. In the US, the courts are secular institutions that operate inside the context of the US Constitution, US Code, State Constitutions and State codes. The religious views of a judge are not relevant under this system as long as they operate inside that context. The same system forbids the banning or denying a judge their office based solely on their belief or not in the Gospel.
    Thank you. I do not know a case. I do wonder if someone giving me a scitzophrenia diagnosis would keep me from being a judge and making a decision based on God's Law, which diagnosis I do not agree with.

    But now about other people. We rejoice when judges make the right decisions.

    Your words are good news.

    What about the Ten Commandments?

    A judge can believe the gospel, good.

    Do we accept that believers understand God's Law while others may not?

    Anything else?

  6. #21
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    15,973
    Thanks
    54
    Thanked 685 Times in 635 Posts

    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    122744
    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    I do not understand what you mean.
    It's okay. Don't worry about it.

  7. #22
    Gold level Subscriber drbrumley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    9,082
    Thanks
    444
    Thanked 2,768 Times in 1,730 Posts

    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    573498
    Jacob, what does the 1 corinthians passage mean to you?


    This one:

    “Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? …If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? I say this to your shame…. Why do you not rather [let yourselves] be cheated?” 1 Cor 6
    Even in the very best of situations, voting is still an unmitigated failure. The fact that any simple majority of individuals (mob) can determine an outcome that adversely affects the minority (mob rule) is against all natural rights. In the United State today, all who vote harm others so that they might benefit. By voting, they are also sanctioning theft of private property at the point of a gun, and the redistribution of that property to those who did not earn it.

  8. #23
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    15,973
    Thanks
    54
    Thanked 685 Times in 635 Posts

    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    122744
    Quote Originally Posted by drbrumley View Post
    Jacob, what does the 1 corinthians passage mean to you?


    This one:

    “Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? …If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? I say this to your shame…. Why do you not rather [let yourselves] be cheated?” 1 Cor 6
    Not to let matters between myself and my fellow believer get to the point where unbelievers are the judges. To have a judge from within the church, who is held in high esteem. Otherwise, to rather let myself be wronged. Cheated implies what exactly (do we know?)?

  9. #24
    Old Timer
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Under the Hill and Over the Hedge
    Posts
    483
    Thanks
    174
    Thanked 317 Times in 218 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    111440
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Thank you. I do not know a case. I do wonder if someone giving me a scitzophrenia diagnosis would keep me from being a judge and making a decision based on God's Law, which diagnosis I do not agree with.
    Well, it would seem an objection based on mental health would be an argument on the person's ability to make sound judgments overall regardless of the person's religious views.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    What about the Ten Commandments?
    What of them? They are foundational documents of Mosaic Law and Judeo/Christian faith.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Do we accept that believers understand God's Law while others may not?
    "God's Law" can cover quite a bit of ground and varies depending on who you ask. Jews would say it is Mosaic Law, Christians Mosaic Law and the changes/additions in the New Testament, Muslims would say those two and the writings of Muhammad, etc. Opinions inside those groups will also vary greatly.
    My general uninformed opinion is that most believers do not really study and understand what they call God's Law.

  10. #25
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    15,973
    Thanks
    54
    Thanked 685 Times in 635 Posts

    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    122744
    Quote Originally Posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    Well, it would seem an objection based on mental health would be an argument on the person's ability to make sound judgments overall regardless of the person's religious views.



    What of them? They are foundational documents of Mosaic Law and Judeo/Christian faith.



    "God's Law" can cover quite a bit of ground and varies depending on who you ask. Jews would say it is Mosaic Law, Christians Mosaic Law and the changes/additions in the New Testament, Muslims would say those two and the writings of Muhammad, etc. Opinions inside those groups will also vary greatly.
    My general uninformed opinion is that most believers do not really study and understand what they call God's Law.
    I have studied God's Law. I want to know to what extent it is enforced in the United States of America. As for my diagnosis I believe I was incorrectly diagnosed, and that I can make judgments of the kind that are required should I be called upon and educated in them to make them. Otherwise, the question of what a judge is Biblically, according to Torah or the Tanakh, from the book of Judges, etc... is an important one. Do we live this way now? Etc....
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

  11. #26
    TOL Subscriber Zeke's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    2,574
    Thanks
    164
    Thanked 398 Times in 366 Posts

    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    150101
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Becoming a Judge while believing the gospel. One thing that I have desired to do is to become a judge. You may have a similar aspiration or advice in regard to this. The world needs just judgment, I believe.

    This must have something to do with government if judges and courts do. It has to do with religion because it is found in the Bible.

    Some people believe that the Law has been abolished.

    People wrestle with their sin and being condemned or judged for it, for what is justice if a person is not judged for their sin, with right judgment? Could this even be for me a person who desires to be a judge?

    There are judges in the Bible. A book of the Bible is called Judges. In the Torah and Israel judges render the decision of God, which should not be deviated from.

    Can you believe in the grace of God? What about the New Covenant? If a person is not under the Law can they be a Judge in regard to the Law?

    Judges render decisions based on the law. They do not create law.

    God’s Law and the laws of the nations.

    There is Noahide Law, which includes the establishment of courts. And there is the Law of Moses specifically for the Nation of Israel. Both come from God.

    Do you have any thoughts on any of the above?
    Better learn how things really work in Caesars kingdom before you play God for that system! The only government we are told to judge is our own based on our Conscience, be it bound or liberated from mans law which is a pyramid scheme.

    Trying to awaken the divine principle in the belly of the fish.

  12. #27
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    15,973
    Thanks
    54
    Thanked 685 Times in 635 Posts

    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    122744
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
    Better learn how things really work in Caesars kingdom before you play God for that system! The only government we are told to judge is our own based on our Conscience, be it bound or liberated from mans law which is a pyramid scheme.

    Are you asking about judging the government, or defending yourself by saying that is something that you do not do? For me to make a post about becoming a judge might infer that I believe something is wrong with things the way that they are. Or it means that I believe that I could fulfill the duties and responsibilities of a judge.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

  13. #28
    Old Timer
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Under the Hill and Over the Hedge
    Posts
    483
    Thanks
    174
    Thanked 317 Times in 218 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    111440
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I have studied God's Law. I want to know to what extent it is enforced in the United States of America.
    Directly, it is not enforced at all since it is not part of the Constitution and other foundational documents of our government. However, elements of it have been and may be introduced into our system through the legislative process. Though shall not murder is a good example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    As for my diagnosis I believe I was incorrectly diagnosed, and that I can make judgments of the kind that are required should I be called upon and educated in them to make them.
    Addressing such questions is why we have a nomination and confirmation process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Otherwise, the question of what a judge is Biblically, according to Torah or the Tanakh, from the book of Judges, etc... is an important one. Do we live this way now? Etc....
    The answer again is effectively not directly but indirectly it is possible. The Torah, Tanakh, Judges, etc. have no standing in US Law but Article III of the Constitution does not establish hard criteria for judicial qualifications, leaving it up to the Congress and the Courts to establish them. I'm not sure what the current standards are but having passed the bar and practiced law is usually considered a good idea.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us