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Thread: Can a Jew be saved without believing the Trinity?

  1. #31
    Silver Member Clete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Exodus 3:14 after John 8:58 might not be the best but even all of your scripture verses are good. Thank you for sharing them. He was definitely without sin. I do believe Jesus to be the (only begotten) Son of God. The scriptures testify to the fact that He is (the only begotten Son of God).
    John 1 makes is clear as crystal that the Logos is the Creator of all things and this same Logos became flesh and dwelt amoung us.

    The reason I quoted Exodus 3:14 was to show the parallel between the "I Am" of John 8 with that at the burning bush.

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Get your armor ready! Tambora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I was a Christian without Trinitarian belief. I believe that a Jew can be saved without a belief in the Trinity. Does anyone want to challenge me on this? I am willing to discuss or have a conversation.
    Why would you not have a trinitarian belief when scripture clearly presents GOD as triune?

    We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
    They already know monsters exist.
    We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

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    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    John 1 makes is clear as crystal that the Logos is the Creator of all things and this same Logos became flesh and dwelt amoung us.

    The reason I quoted Exodus 3:14 was to show the parallel between the "I Am" of John 8 with that at the burning bush.
    I believe John 1 and Exodus 3:14 but I do not follow your words in your post.

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    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Why would you not have a trinitarian belief when scripture clearly presents GOD as triune?
    Maybe you can explain. I don't see that.

    God and Jesus are not the same.

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    Get your armor ready! Tambora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Maybe you can explain. I don't see that.

    God and Jesus are not the same.
    Read scripture.

    In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth, and created man on the 6th day.
    Let US (plural) create man in OUR (plural) image. (Genesis chapter 1)
    There is nothing that was created that the SON was not involved in creating. (John 1:3)

    Both creation and salvation are connected to the triune GOD --- Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

    We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
    They already know monsters exist.
    We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    The only problem that I see is that you were wrong. I believe that it is because you didn't know. So, thank you.
    Hi and you remind me of 2 Cor 3:13-15 and reads And not even as Moses , who was placing a VAIL upon his face , for the children of Israel not to GAZE towards the END of that being ABOLISHED ( THE LAW OF MOSES ) and read verse verse 15 , But until this DAY , when Moses is read , a COVERING LIES UPON THEIR HEART !!

    So tell me how are JEWS being saved today , verse 16 !!

    And how were you saved by GRACE ??

    Only one time a ROUND and you do not know HOW SALVATION comes about , SAD !!

    dan p

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Read scripture.

    In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth, and created man on the 6th day.
    Let US (plural) create man in OUR (plural) image. (Genesis chapter 1)
    There is nothing that was created that the SON was not involved in creating. (John 1:3)

    Both creation and salvation are connected to the triune GOD --- Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
    I believe in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I do not accept what you say Genesis 1 says.

    I understand that Jesus may have had a role in creation somehow.

  12. #38
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi and you remind me of 2 Cor 3:13-15 and reads And not even as Moses , who was placing a VAIL upon his face , for the children of Israel not to GAZE towards the END of that being ABOLISHED ( THE LAW OF MOSES ) and read verse verse 15 , But until this DAY , when Moses is read , a COVERING LIES UPON THEIR HEART !!

    So tell me how are JEWS being saved today , verse 16 !!

    And how were you saved by GRACE ??

    Only one time a ROUND and you do not know HOW SALVATION comes about , SAD !!

    dan p
    I am not sure what you are ranting on about. I believe the scriptures. And, remember you can only be saved by grace. I do not believe that the Law of Moses cannot be read. What does verse 13 say?

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    The Trinity is theological, it's not a measure of anyone's salvation. \

    It's as simple as that, really. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a moron- as if God is that worried about such a thing rather then where man stands with Him

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucifer View Post
    The Trinity is theological, it's not a measure of anyone's salvation. \

    It's as simple as that, really. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a moron- as if God is that worried about such a thing rather then where man stands with Him
    Interesting. Well, thank you. However, can people disagree in regard to their Theology?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I was a Christian without Trinitarian belief. I believe that a Jew can be saved without a belief in the Trinity. Does anyone want to challenge me on this? I am willing to discuss or have a conversation.
    What exactly do YOU mean by that?

    You say you were a Christian without a Trinitarian belief.

    What exactly was it you first believed about Christ that made you a Christian?

    And what is it the same as what you now believe about what a Jew has to believe in order to become saved?

    Or do you believe one has to do some kind of a work in order to become or stay, saved?

    Thanks

    Rom. 5:6-8.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    What exactly do YOU mean by that?

    You say you were a Christian without a Trinitarian belief.

    What exactly was it you first believed about Christ that made you a Christian?

    And what is it the same as what you now believe about what a Jew has to believe in order to become saved?

    Or do you believe one has to do some kind of a work in order to become or stay, saved?

    Thanks

    Rom. 5:6-8.
    Salvation is by grace through faith. I believed that Jesus is the Christ. That is what I believed about Jesus. I believe that Jesus, Yeshua, is the Messiah. Same thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Salvation is by grace through faith. I believed that Jesus is the Christ. That is what I believed about Jesus. I believe that Jesus, Yeshua, is the Messiah. Same thing.
    So, you did not believe that He died for your sins?

    Just trying to get a bit more clarity from you as to what exactly you first believed.

    Thanks

    Nehemiah 8:8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Interesting. Well, thank you. However, can people disagree in regard to their Theology?
    You have to believe that the Crucifixion was God's grace upon man- this is much is true, you can't have the best of both worlds. God calls all to that event, and you have to recognize it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi and you remind me of 2 Cor 3:13-15 and reads And not even as Moses , who was placing a VAIL upon his face , for the children of Israel not to GAZE towards the END of that being ABOLISHED ( THE LAW OF MOSES ) and read verse verse 15 , But until this DAY , when Moses is read , a COVERING LIES UPON THEIR HEART !!

    So tell me how are JEWS being saved today , verse 16 !!

    And how were you saved by GRACE ??

    Only one time a ROUND and you do not know HOW SALVATION comes about , SAD !!

    dan p
    It's interesting that Paul never points this out (about the Law having been abolished) to those Messianic Jews OF HIS DAY, like James, and all those thousands of Jews zealous of the Law, with James, there, in Acts 21.

    Obviously, what Paul had meant in 2 Cor. 3, and what you appear to have concluded he'd meant, is one more instance of your being a country mile apart, lol.

    Rom. 5:6-8.

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