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Thread: Can a Jew be saved without believing the Trinity?

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    Super Moderator JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Maybe united is not the right word.
    And now you're being intellectually dishonest.

    Look up "echad", Jacob. You'll find that "united, i.e. one" is the definition.

    So yes, Jacob, "united" is the right word.

    As you admit, one is not plural.
    Also not what I said.

    I said that unity implies a plurality. A plurality as one.

    Maybe I don't understand.
    That much is clear. Or you're being dishonest and lying about this, as Clete said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    And now you're being intellectually dishonest.

    Look up "echad", Jacob. You'll find that "united, i.e. one" is the definition.

    So yes, Jacob, "united" is the right word.



    Also not what I said.

    I said that unity implies a plurality. A plurality as one.




    That much is clear. Or you're being dishonest and lying about this, as Clete said.
    What you are telling me is there is not what was shown to me.

    edit see next post

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    echad does have that here

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    Super Moderator JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    What you are telling me is there is not what was shown to me.

    edit see next post
    That's because I'm trying to correct what you have been taught, or have taught yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    echad does have that here
    Yes, it does, Jacob.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    That's because I'm trying to correct what you have been taught, or have taught yourself.Yes, it does, Jacob.
    It is easier for me to accept this.

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    I agree with you . God still has a great plan for His chosen people.

    the bible says that Yahoshua and the father are ( 1.) One single deity ( ONE ) - ( 1. ) “ one and no more “ and the Fact is - The Father, Son and Spirit are NEVER, EVER - NEVER ONCE - said to be one IN UNITY - in the Bible.
    I would ask that You please take a close look at the following two verses and what it says in the Greek Language.
    1 Jn 5: 7 – 8 - 8: There are three that bear record in heaven, Father, Word, and Holy Ghost: and these three are { 1. one - εἷς / Heis } .... In Greek : - Heis - ONLY and ALWAYS = means a primary numeral 1.
    :8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, Spirit, water, and blood: and these three are { agreed - united – in unity = μία / Mia } unto - { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis }
    Father, Word, and Holy Ghost: - these three are { 1.} _ one = εἷς / Heis }
    Spirit, water, and blood: and these three are { agreed - united = μία / Mia } unto - { 1. } _ one = εἷς / Heis }

    This is the correct and exact translation. / - μία / Mia and the word - εἷς / Heis are two different Greek words used here in 1 Jn 5: 7 – 8. But what do they mean - ?
    Please notice the difference between the Greek words - { εἷς / Heis and μία / mia } Both of these words are translated into English Translations - as the word { ONE } - however they are not the same Greek word or the same meaning.
    The verses are saying that - the Father, the Word, and Holy Ghost: are { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } A primary number one.
    and that the Spirit, water, and blood are { agreed - united – in unity = μία / mia } - - unto 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis. So You easily can tell the difference between the word meaning { A primary numeral one - which is meaning { one / 1. } only. Only one. and the difference between saying UNITY or AGREEMENT or UNITED ?
    This is very clear in the Greek manuscripts – and the Trinitarians translate Greek words correctly when they feel they agree with their doctrines, however when the Bible goes out of their trinity doctrine, they begin to change words, deleting, adding and changing many words - which I will not explain in this post because it would take too much room and space.
    However, many believe that my statement is false and unscriptural and that Yahoshua had really intended and meant to say that he and his Father were "one", only in the sense of a unity or agreement only.
    I would like the opportunity to prove what the Bible actually says and that that many are not teaching what the Bible says. Because " in the Greek Language there are two entirely separate words that separate - between the definition of The Greek word “ MIA “ meaning = “ ONE IN UNITY or AGREEMENT or UNITED “ and also, the definition of The Greek word “ HEIS “ meaning = a Primary Numeral One. ( 1. ) – in singularity. ( one and no more - ONLY ONE ( 1. )... These are two completely entirely separate Greek words - with two totally different meanings and they are used in two different meanings.
    A primary numeral 1. Is the word = G1520 - εἷς - “ Heis “ - hice / hice. Meaning = A primary numeral; one: one only.
    The word meaning to agree or UNITY or AGREEMENT or UNITED , is the word - G3391 - “ MIA “ - μία – mia - mee'-ah. meaning = To agree, = also meaning - A (certain person, place or thing), = also meaning = first and also unity or AGREEMENT or UNITED.
    We find that these two separate Greek words “ G1520 - εἷς - “ Heis-. “ and G3391 - “ MIA “ - μία – mia - are used together in many of the same exact verses, and we see the difference in their meanings and how these two different words are used. As we saw above – there in - 1 Jn 5: 7 – 8
    The word - G1520 - εἷς - “ Heis. – always means, = A primary numeral; one: one only. ( NO MORE ) However the word - μία - “ MIA “ is a word in Greek - to express all of the ways, all the reasons and ways to say “ one “ when You do not intentionally mean to intend to express ( A PRIMARY NUMERAL ONE ) = for example when you say “ one in unity/ agreement “ or to say as “ when You point to an abject and say - “ I WANT THAT ONE “ ... the word - G3391 μία - “ MIA “ also means - “ FIRST “ and “ UNITY / agreement “ or “ A Certain person, place or thing “ - such as when You say “ I SAW “ A “ FIG TREE “ - The word - μία - “ MIA “ would mean the word “ A. “ ...
    So, μία - “ MIA “ is all of the other reasons and ways to say ( ONE ) when you are not indicating to say * A PRIMARY NUMERAL ONE- ONE AND NO MORE - or meaning to say - SINGULARITY ONLY.. { 1. } meaning primary numeral 1. This word is always - “ εἷς - Heis “ in the Greek---- For example the husband and wife are “ ONE “ - UNITED or IN AGREEMENT / agreed / united flesh - the Greek N.T. always uses the Greek word - μία - “ MIA “. - unity for this concept. NEVER in the N.T. / Greek - are a husband and wife - G1520 - εἷς - “ Heis “ - hice / hice. Meaning = A primary numeral; one: one only. They are always -= μία - “ MIA “. - unity / united flesh. Always and only.. Anytime You say the word “ ONE “ in a sentence and are not intending to say the PRIMARY NUMERAL ONE. = meaning { 1. ) – only - in the Greek You would say - μία - “ MIA. “ There are many times that these two words ( μία - MIA and εἷς - Heis ) are used in the same exact verse, and we can look and see the definition of these two different Greek words and how they are used in their meaning – when they are used together in the same exact verse. Let’s look at the real meaning of these words and how they are used together in the same verses.
    Luk 17:34 Two men in ( A - μία / MIA } bed; the { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } shall be taken, and the other left.
    Joh 10:16 And ... there shall be ( A - μία / MIA } fold and { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } shepherd.
    1Co 6:16 He which is joined to an harlot is { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } body for two, saith he, shall be ( A - μία / MIA } flesh.
    Eph 4: 4 - 5 There is { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } Lord, ( A - μία / MIA } faith and { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } baptism.
    Php 1:27 Stand fast in { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } spirit, with ( UNITED / agreed - μία / MIA } minds ...........
    Rev 6:1 The Lamb opened ( FIRST - μία / MIA } seal and { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } of four beasts said, Come and see.
    2Pe 3:8 Be not ignorant of this { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } thing ( A - μία / MIA } day is as a thousand years... and a thousand years as ( A - μία / MIA } day.
    Mat 5:18 Till heaven and earth pass, not { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } jot or ( A - μία / MIA } tittle shall pass from the law
    Act 4:32 The multitude .. were of ( UNITED - μία / MIA } heart and of { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } soul.
    Also the Greek word { G3391 - “ MIA “ - μία – mia - mee'-ah } is used to indicate the word “ FIRST “ 10 times in the NT here are these verses. Example - Mat 28:1 - The { MIA - μία - first } day of the week. -
    And Luk 14:18 - With { MIA - μία - unity } = ( one mind ) they made excuses.
    For example Luk_14:18, { MIA - μία - first } one said, I have bought property.
    Also the word { G3391 - “ MIA “ - μία – mia } is used to mean “ FIRST in the following verses - - Mar_16:2, Luk_24:1, Joh_20:1, Joh_20:19, Act_12:10 , Act_20:7, 1Co_16:2, Tit_3:10, Luk_16:5
    Also the word - { G3391 - “ MIA “ - μία – mia } is used in the Tit 1:6 and 1Ti 3:12 verses commanding deacons and elders to be the husbands of ( A ) wife. Never once does the Bible command any man to be married to only ( 1. ) single woman - NEVER is the word - { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } - never, ever used to say that a man is to have only one single wife. The authors always use the Greek word - MIA - μία - when saying that a man, deacon or bishop should have a wife. Not even once.
    However the Original Greek does ( ALWAYS ) every single last time- the Greek uses the word meaning “ a primary numeral one = { 1. } when saying that a woman is to have 1. / one husband only. This is the Greek word - { 1. _ G1520 one - εἷς / Heis } - A primary numeral one. - one and no more, singularity – only.
    A woman is to have { 1. Husband. Never is any man commanded to have { 1. Wife. The Greek uses these words to make this clear distinction. YET WE SEE - The Trinitarian Translators have made changes and have formulated how the Greek words MIA and HEIS are used in formulating their anti - polygamy doctrine, but they use these words correctly when it come to their Trinitarian doctrine. AS WE SEE - here in 1Jn 5:7 – 8 - 8: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are { G1520 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis }
    :8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three are { agreed - united or AGREEMENT or UNITY = G3391 μία / mia } unto { 1. _ G1520 one - εἷς / Heis.
    Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be agreed - united or AGREED or UNITED = μία / mia } flesh.
    Also i respectfully tell You - that You are completely wrong. - The Bible is very clear, God The Father has desired to dwell and inhabit himself - the literal location of Jerusalem.
    Here are many, many verses where God directly is saying that He personally will make His dwelling place and inhabitation and HIS THRONE = in Jerusalem.
    Psa 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee. 28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.
    Psa 9:11 Sing praises to the LORD, which dwelleth in Zion: declare among the people his doings.
    Psalm 76:2 His tabernacle is in Salem; ( jerusalem ) His dwelling place also is in Zion.
    Joel 3:17 Then you will know that I am the LORD your God, Dwelling in Zion.
    Joel 3:21 For the LORD dwells in Zion.
    Zechariah 8:3 "Thus says the LORD, 'I will return to Zion and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem Then Jerusalem will be called the City of Truth, and the mountain of the LORD of hosts will be called the Holy Mountain.'
    Psalm 132:13 For the LORD has chosen Zion; He has desired it for His habitation. :14 "This is My resting place forever; Here I will dwell, for I have desired it.
    Psalm 135:21 Blessed be the LORD from Zion, Who dwells in Jerusalem. Praise the LORD.

    IN this regard, The Father is prophesied in the Old Testament - to LITERALLY come and inhabit the earthy throne and to reside in Jerusalem. This is where The Father will dwell - his resting place. – through His Son - Yahoshua. The Father manifested in flesh. -= This is My resting place forever. - If You have seen the Yahoshua – You have seen The Father. They are 1 deity - 1 person and Yahoshua is the very fruit of the body of David - that is to sit on the throne in Jerusalem.

    THE THRONE BELONGS TO YAHOSHUA - BECAUSE HE IS THE SON OF DAVID.
    The Bible explains that through Yahoshua – God himself will inhabit Jerusalem and will sit upon the throne..
    THE THRONE OF JERUSALEM IS THE THRONE OF THE FATHER FOREVER.
    1Ch 29:23 Then Solomon sat on the throne of the LORD as king.
    Zec 3:8 Hear now, O Yahoshua high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.
    Zec 6:12 Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD: :13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne....
    Jer 3:17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.
    Eze 43:7 And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever,
    Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: ......and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. :7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
    Isa 16:5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.
    Isa 22:22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. 23 And I will fasten him as a NAIL in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father's house.
    Lam 5:19 Thou, O LORD, remainest for ever; thy throne from generation to generation.
    Mic 4:6 In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted; :7 And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.

    We see that Yahoshua will sit on the throne of David - in Jerusalem. We see that Yahoshua returns a third time to earth to fight for His earthly kingdom in Jerusalem where Yahoshua will sit on the throne of His Father David.
    In John 18:36 Yes - - Yahoshua stated that the KINGDOM of the earth was not “ HIS KINGDOM “ .... But Yahoshua will bring His own Kingdom to rule the earth. The earthly kingdom will be destroyed. The Jews did not even have control of their own Kingdom - ROME was ruler over the Kingdom - King Herod was refurbishing and rebuilding the temple.
    Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. :2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
    : 3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. :4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall split in the middle.
    This is the third coming - The battle of Armageddon. The Armada of saints.
    Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, :15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
    We see just a small example how that the Trinitarian Translators are adding changes to the Bible and that at time they even contradict one another - as we see the contradiction below.

    { Tyndale } Gen:16 :5 Then said Sara unto Abram: You do me unright, for I have given my maid into thy bosom:

    { KJV } Gen:16:5 And Sara said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom:

    In Gen:16:5 - The original manuscripts are simply saying... 5 Sara said unto Abram, VIOLENCE is upon me giving the maid a bosom: - that’s it !

    Gen 16:5 Sarai H8297 said H559 unto H413 Abram,H87 violence H2555 is upon H5921 me H595 giving H5414 the maid H8198 a bosom; H2436

    Yet we see the Trinitarian anti -polygamy translators attempting to insert their anti - polygamy message and also their Trinitarian theology. These changes and alterations exist in these doctrines throughout your entire translation. - and I can easily prove this..
    "human thinking", has no place when it comes to translating the original manuscripts. Trinitarians have sought to "redefine" the words of the Bible. The Trinitarian Translators also mistranslated Rev 6:11 -
    Rev 6:11 simply says that = White robes were given unto each individual. Rev 6:11 AndG2532 white G3022 robes G4749 givenG1325 each G1538
    This Greek word G1538 is ἕκαστος - hιkastos (from hekas, = meaning " each separately") – each (individual) or each unit - viewed distinctly, i.e. - as opposite / opposed to " ( as a group ) “ - it means each { individual } - each
    You can say that a Robe was given to “ EVERY ONE OF THEM “ - but this is not what the original Greek word G1538 ἕκαστος - hιkastos literally means - in its original meaning. It has nothing to do with the word one.

    This Greek word is used 135 + times to say “ every man “ or “ each person “ in the translation and this is what it means - EACH INDIVIDUAL. Males and Females. Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one. This is the strongest form of the word 1. That can be expressed in the Greek Language in the Manuscripts. G1520 - εἷς - “ Heis “ - hice / hice. Meaning = A primary numeral; one: one only.
    NEVER ONCE - is any other word used to describe the relationship between Yahoshua and His Father.... NEVER - NEVER are they one in UNITY or AGREEMENT or UNITED - they are – always, every single last time - ONE / 1. Meaning G1520 - εἷς - “ Heis “ - hice / Hice. Meaning = A primary numeral; one: one only. There is no such idea in the manuscripts that say that Yahoshua and the Father are one in unity. My friends, this is the facts. I ask You to show me one single thing that I said that was wrong or incorrect...... I do not believe that You can. Because it is the Original Manuscripts compared against The Trinitarian - Spiritual Father King James - and Trinitarian - Spiritual Mother - The Roman Catholic Church. Many of their Revelations, Prophecies and Spiritual Claims are found nowhere in the manuscripts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by advenureside View Post
    I agree with you .
    Who are you agreeing with?

    BTW, your post is too long.

    It is against the rule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by advenureside View Post
    I agree with you . God still has a great plan for His chosen people.

    the bible says that Yahoshua and the father are ( 1.) One single deity ( ONE ) - ( 1. ) “ one and no more “ and the Fact is - The Father, Son and Spirit are NEVER, EVER - NEVER ONCE - said to be one IN UNITY - in the Bible.
    I would ask that You please take a close look at the following two verses and what it says in the Greek Language.
    1 Jn 5: 7 – 8 - 8: There are three that bear record in heaven, Father, Word, and Holy Ghost: and these three are { 1. one - εἷς / Heis } .... In Greek : - Heis - ONLY and ALWAYS = means a primary numeral 1.
    :8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, Spirit, water, and blood: and these three are { agreed - united – in unity = μία / Mia } unto - { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis }
    Father, Word, and Holy Ghost: - these three are { 1.} _ one = εἷς / Heis }
    Spirit, water, and blood: and these three are { agreed - united = μία / Mia } unto - { 1. } _ one = εἷς / Heis }

    This is the correct and exact translation. / - μία / Mia and the word - εἷς / Heis are two different Greek words used here in 1 Jn 5: 7 – 8. But what do they mean - ?
    Please notice the difference between the Greek words - { εἷς / Heis and μία / mia } Both of these words are translated into English Translations - as the word { ONE } - however they are not the same Greek word or the same meaning.
    The verses are saying that - the Father, the Word, and Holy Ghost: are { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } A primary number one.
    and that the Spirit, water, and blood are { agreed - united – in unity = μία / mia } - - unto 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis. So You easily can tell the difference between the word meaning { A primary numeral one - which is meaning { one / 1. } only. Only one. and the difference between saying UNITY or AGREEMENT or UNITED ?
    This is very clear in the Greek manuscripts – and the Trinitarians translate Greek words correctly when they feel they agree with their doctrines, however when the Bible goes out of their trinity doctrine, they begin to change words, deleting, adding and changing many words - which I will not explain in this post because it would take too much room and space.
    However, many believe that my statement is false and unscriptural and that Yahoshua had really intended and meant to say that he and his Father were "one", only in the sense of a unity or agreement only.
    I would like the opportunity to prove what the Bible actually says and that that many are not teaching what the Bible says. Because " in the Greek Language there are two entirely separate words that separate - between the definition of The Greek word “ MIA “ meaning = “ ONE IN UNITY or AGREEMENT or UNITED “ and also, the definition of The Greek word “ HEIS “ meaning = a Primary Numeral One. ( 1. ) – in singularity. ( one and no more - ONLY ONE ( 1. )... These are two completely entirely separate Greek words - with two totally different meanings and they are used in two different meanings.
    A primary numeral 1. Is the word = G1520 - εἷς - “ Heis “ - hice / hice. Meaning = A primary numeral; one: one only.
    The word meaning to agree or UNITY or AGREEMENT or UNITED , is the word - G3391 - “ MIA “ - μία – mia - mee'-ah. meaning = To agree, = also meaning - A (certain person, place or thing), = also meaning = first and also unity or AGREEMENT or UNITED.
    We find that these two separate Greek words “ G1520 - εἷς - “ Heis-. “ and G3391 - “ MIA “ - μία – mia - are used together in many of the same exact verses, and we see the difference in their meanings and how these two different words are used. As we saw above – there in - 1 Jn 5: 7 – 8
    The word - G1520 - εἷς - “ Heis. – always means, = A primary numeral; one: one only. ( NO MORE ) However the word - μία - “ MIA “ is a word in Greek - to express all of the ways, all the reasons and ways to say “ one “ when You do not intentionally mean to intend to express ( A PRIMARY NUMERAL ONE ) = for example when you say “ one in unity/ agreement “ or to say as “ when You point to an abject and say - “ I WANT THAT ONE “ ... the word - G3391 μία - “ MIA “ also means - “ FIRST “ and “ UNITY / agreement “ or “ A Certain person, place or thing “ - such as when You say “ I SAW “ A “ FIG TREE “ - The word - μία - “ MIA “ would mean the word “ A. “ ...
    So, μία - “ MIA “ is all of the other reasons and ways to say ( ONE ) when you are not indicating to say * A PRIMARY NUMERAL ONE- ONE AND NO MORE - or meaning to say - SINGULARITY ONLY.. { 1. } meaning primary numeral 1. This word is always - “ εἷς - Heis “ in the Greek---- For example the husband and wife are “ ONE “ - UNITED or IN AGREEMENT / agreed / united flesh - the Greek N.T. always uses the Greek word - μία - “ MIA “. - unity for this concept. NEVER in the N.T. / Greek - are a husband and wife - G1520 - εἷς - “ Heis “ - hice / hice. Meaning = A primary numeral; one: one only. They are always -= μία - “ MIA “. - unity / united flesh. Always and only.. Anytime You say the word “ ONE “ in a sentence and are not intending to say the PRIMARY NUMERAL ONE. = meaning { 1. ) – only - in the Greek You would say - μία - “ MIA. “ There are many times that these two words ( μία - MIA and εἷς - Heis ) are used in the same exact verse, and we can look and see the definition of these two different Greek words and how they are used in their meaning – when they are used together in the same exact verse. Let’s look at the real meaning of these words and how they are used together in the same verses.
    Luk 17:34 Two men in ( A - μία / MIA } bed; the { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } shall be taken, and the other left.
    Joh 10:16 And ... there shall be ( A - μία / MIA } fold and { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } shepherd.
    1Co 6:16 He which is joined to an harlot is { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } body for two, saith he, shall be ( A - μία / MIA } flesh.
    Eph 4: 4 - 5 There is { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } Lord, ( A - μία / MIA } faith and { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } baptism.
    Php 1:27 Stand fast in { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } spirit, with ( UNITED / agreed - μία / MIA } minds ...........
    Rev 6:1 The Lamb opened ( FIRST - μία / MIA } seal and { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } of four beasts said, Come and see.
    2Pe 3:8 Be not ignorant of this { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } thing ( A - μία / MIA } day is as a thousand years... and a thousand years as ( A - μία / MIA } day.
    Mat 5:18 Till heaven and earth pass, not { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } jot or ( A - μία / MIA } tittle shall pass from the law
    Act 4:32 The multitude .. were of ( UNITED - μία / MIA } heart and of { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } soul.
    Also the Greek word { G3391 - “ MIA “ - μία – mia - mee'-ah } is used to indicate the word “ FIRST “ 10 times in the NT here are these verses. Example - Mat 28:1 - The { MIA - μία - first } day of the week. -
    And Luk 14:18 - With { MIA - μία - unity } = ( one mind ) they made excuses.
    For example Luk_14:18, { MIA - μία - first } one said, I have bought property.
    Also the word { G3391 - “ MIA “ - μία – mia } is used to mean “ FIRST in the following verses - - Mar_16:2, Luk_24:1, Joh_20:1, Joh_20:19, Act_12:10 , Act_20:7, 1Co_16:2, Tit_3:10, Luk_16:5
    Also the word - { G3391 - “ MIA “ - μία – mia } is used in the Tit 1:6 and 1Ti 3:12 verses commanding deacons and elders to be the husbands of ( A ) wife. Never once does the Bible command any man to be married to only ( 1. ) single woman - NEVER is the word - { 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis } - never, ever used to say that a man is to have only one single wife. The authors always use the Greek word - MIA - μία - when saying that a man, deacon or bishop should have a wife. Not even once.
    However the Original Greek does ( ALWAYS ) every single last time- the Greek uses the word meaning “ a primary numeral one = { 1. } when saying that a woman is to have 1. / one husband only. This is the Greek word - { 1. _ G1520 one - εἷς / Heis } - A primary numeral one. - one and no more, singularity – only.
    A woman is to have { 1. Husband. Never is any man commanded to have { 1. Wife. The Greek uses these words to make this clear distinction. YET WE SEE - The Trinitarian Translators have made changes and have formulated how the Greek words MIA and HEIS are used in formulating their anti - polygamy doctrine, but they use these words correctly when it come to their Trinitarian doctrine. AS WE SEE - here in 1Jn 5:7 – 8 - 8: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are { G1520 1. _ one - εἷς / Heis }
    :8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three are { agreed - united or AGREEMENT or UNITY = G3391 μία / mia } unto { 1. _ G1520 one - εἷς / Heis.
    Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be agreed - united or AGREED or UNITED = μία / mia } flesh.
    Also i respectfully tell You - that You are completely wrong. - The Bible is very clear, God The Father has desired to dwell and inhabit himself - the literal location of Jerusalem.
    Here are many, many verses where God directly is saying that He personally will make His dwelling place and inhabitation and HIS THRONE = in Jerusalem.
    Psa 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee. 28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.
    Psa 9:11 Sing praises to the LORD, which dwelleth in Zion: declare among the people his doings.
    Psalm 76:2 His tabernacle is in Salem; ( jerusalem ) His dwelling place also is in Zion.
    Joel 3:17 Then you will know that I am the LORD your God, Dwelling in Zion.
    Joel 3:21 For the LORD dwells in Zion.
    Zechariah 8:3 "Thus says the LORD, 'I will return to Zion and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem Then Jerusalem will be called the City of Truth, and the mountain of the LORD of hosts will be called the Holy Mountain.'
    Psalm 132:13 For the LORD has chosen Zion; He has desired it for His habitation. :14 "This is My resting place forever; Here I will dwell, for I have desired it.
    Psalm 135:21 Blessed be the LORD from Zion, Who dwells in Jerusalem. Praise the LORD.

    IN this regard, The Father is prophesied in the Old Testament - to LITERALLY come and inhabit the earthy throne and to reside in Jerusalem. This is where The Father will dwell - his resting place. – through His Son - Yahoshua. The Father manifested in flesh. -= This is My resting place forever. - If You have seen the Yahoshua – You have seen The Father. They are 1 deity - 1 person and Yahoshua is the very fruit of the body of David - that is to sit on the throne in Jerusalem.

    THE THRONE BELONGS TO YAHOSHUA - BECAUSE HE IS THE SON OF DAVID.
    The Bible explains that through Yahoshua – God himself will inhabit Jerusalem and will sit upon the throne..
    THE THRONE OF JERUSALEM IS THE THRONE OF THE FATHER FOREVER.
    1Ch 29:23 Then Solomon sat on the throne of the LORD as king.
    Zec 3:8 Hear now, O Yahoshua high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.
    Zec 6:12 Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD: :13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne....
    Jer 3:17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.
    Eze 43:7 And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever,
    Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: ......and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. :7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
    Isa 16:5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.
    Isa 22:22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. 23 And I will fasten him as a NAIL in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father's house.
    Lam 5:19 Thou, O LORD, remainest for ever; thy throne from generation to generation.
    Mic 4:6 In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted; :7 And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.

    We see that Yahoshua will sit on the throne of David - in Jerusalem. We see that Yahoshua returns a third time to earth to fight for His earthly kingdom in Jerusalem where Yahoshua will sit on the throne of His Father David.
    In John 18:36 Yes - - Yahoshua stated that the KINGDOM of the earth was not “ HIS KINGDOM “ .... But Yahoshua will bring His own Kingdom to rule the earth. The earthly kingdom will be destroyed. The Jews did not even have control of their own Kingdom - ROME was ruler over the Kingdom - King Herod was refurbishing and rebuilding the temple.
    Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. :2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
    : 3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. :4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall split in the middle.
    This is the third coming - The battle of Armageddon. The Armada of saints.
    Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, :15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
    We see just a small example how that the Trinitarian Translators are adding changes to the Bible and that at time they even contradict one another - as we see the contradiction below.

    { Tyndale } Gen:16 :5 Then said Sara unto Abram: You do me unright, for I have given my maid into thy bosom:

    { KJV } Gen:16:5 And Sara said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom:

    In Gen:16:5 - The original manuscripts are simply saying... 5 Sara said unto Abram, VIOLENCE is upon me giving the maid a bosom: - that’s it !

    Gen 16:5 Sarai H8297 said H559 unto H413 Abram,H87 violence H2555 is upon H5921 me H595 giving H5414 the maid H8198 a bosom; H2436

    Yet we see the Trinitarian anti -polygamy translators attempting to insert their anti - polygamy message and also their Trinitarian theology. These changes and alterations exist in these doctrines throughout your entire translation. - and I can easily prove this..
    "human thinking", has no place when it comes to translating the original manuscripts. Trinitarians have sought to "redefine" the words of the Bible. The Trinitarian Translators also mistranslated Rev 6:11 -
    Rev 6:11 simply says that = White robes were given unto each individual. Rev 6:11 AndG2532 white G3022 robes G4749 givenG1325 each G1538
    This Greek word G1538 is ἕκαστος - hιkastos (from hekas, = meaning " each separately") – each (individual) or each unit - viewed distinctly, i.e. - as opposite / opposed to " ( as a group ) “ - it means each { individual } - each
    You can say that a Robe was given to “ EVERY ONE OF THEM “ - but this is not what the original Greek word G1538 ἕκαστος - hιkastos literally means - in its original meaning. It has nothing to do with the word one.

    This Greek word is used 135 + times to say “ every man “ or “ each person “ in the translation and this is what it means - EACH INDIVIDUAL. Males and Females. Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one. This is the strongest form of the word 1. That can be expressed in the Greek Language in the Manuscripts. G1520 - εἷς - “ Heis “ - hice / hice. Meaning = A primary numeral; one: one only.
    NEVER ONCE - is any other word used to describe the relationship between Yahoshua and His Father.... NEVER - NEVER are they one in UNITY or AGREEMENT or UNITED - they are – always, every single last time - ONE / 1. Meaning G1520 - εἷς - “ Heis “ - hice / Hice. Meaning = A primary numeral; one: one only. There is no such idea in the manuscripts that say that Yahoshua and the Father are one in unity. My friends, this is the facts. I ask You to show me one single thing that I said that was wrong or incorrect...... I do not believe that You can. Because it is the Original Manuscripts compared against The Trinitarian - Spiritual Father King James - and Trinitarian - Spiritual Mother - The Roman Catholic Church. Many of their Revelations, Prophecies and Spiritual Claims are found nowhere in the manuscripts.
    Welcome to TOL. Where did you come up with this from?

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    Dearest Jacob - Thank You very much for responding to my post.

    My post was a complete subject concerning the massive amount of fully documented validation about the Oneness of God - that exists and is in the Orignal Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. Honestly I did not come up with any of it.

    You, myself or anyone who wants to take the time can take a look at the original Greek manuscripts and they will see exactly what I posted.


    My post was really too long in length and it just had to be taken down. But honestly did not know about the rule here about posting long posts. I know now I wont make the same mistake again.
    If someone does not look at the original Greek and Hebrew they will have absolutely no idea whatsoever what I am talking about. But if they do, they begin to see and compare what the original manuscripts are saying. Do they accurately represent the the Roman Catholic Jesuit Douay Rhiems 1582 English translation or the King James copy cat that proceeded it - nearly word for word.

    Instead of basing our challenging questions and different opinions, feelings and points that we wish to make upon the trinitarian translations - we can look to the auctual manuscripts and place faithg in Gods word in the auctual words that are therein and some wish to agree upon the auctual message that they transmit and some wish to trust in the trinitarian translations that were written nearly 2000 years after Yahoshua - by trinitarian kings, popes and government authorities that were already perseciuting others trying to seperate from their government church system.

    They created a play - script or a movie, placing their ideas and social norms that existed in current modern society into the cast.

    This is why they were burning and torturing and imprisoning people just before they produced the translation ( Concerning the very translation ) itself being translated by others . They still continued to drive people out of England and Europe and expel and persecute people who thought different religious ideologies than they. Many, many Pilgrims and Puritans and Quakers left England because they could not legally exist while being separated from the Church OF England - they would be killed, persecuted and tortured and reduced into nothings of society. They sought to separate from the Church of England; King Charles the Ist and many other Trinitarian Kings ( TRINITARIANS ) would threaten them with harsh punishments if they did not obey the Church of England in religious faiths. Most of them starved to death and died of diseases and other related deaths.

    To the Church OF England - this was just a little, tiny, needed change in their society that really never mattered or affected the entirety of the body of society. This was their attitude. And their attitude when they made their translation. I believe that they completely perverted the original manuscripts and sought to insert their pre concieved doctrines..

    And this was just in England alone. What about the Millions of total victims throughout Europe who suffered at the hands of the Trinitarian Governmental Translators. This is why it took the Roman Catholic Church nearly 500 years after Christ to produce a Bible into the Latin / Italian language and why they waited until nearly 2000 years after Christ to make the Bible into any other language on the entire planet outside of Latin / Italian. - while butchering, murdering, slaughtering and persecuting others for their faiths that contradicted their established faith and doctrines. This is why the earlier translators such as Wycliffe, Coverdale and The Tyndale Bible, Bishops Bible and Even Martian Luther have contradictions in their translations that are against the later Catholic and Protestant Churches transliterations - because the earlier translators attempted to create their own twist that molded and contorted into the fans and group whom which they were translating for. Today's translators do the same exact thing.

    But readers come to the realization that this was all of God's plan - whatever happened - God made it all happen- King James Translators and other translators just had to simply - be inspired by God.

    The moderator was sure to make it clear that I could re - post but that I should divide it into two separate posts. Sorry to all for making a too long of a long post. I trully hope Your day is going well. Thank for considering my post and for quoting it.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to advenureside For Your Post:

    meshak (January 8th, 2019)

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    Quote Originally Posted by advenureside View Post

    Dearest Jacob - Thank You very much for responding to my post.

    My post was a complete subject concerning the massive amount of fully documented validation about the Oneness of God - that exists and is in the Orignal Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. Honestly I did not come up with any of it.

    You, myself or anyone who wants to take the time can take a look at the original Greek manuscripts and they will see exactly what I posted.


    My post was really too long in length and it just had to be taken down. But honestly did not know about the rule here about posting long posts. I know now I wont make the same mistake again.
    If someone does not look at the original Greek and Hebrew they will have absolutely no idea whatsoever what I am talking about. But if they do, they begin to see and compare what the original manuscripts are saying. Do they accurately represent the the Roman Catholic Jesuit Douay Rhiems 1582 English translation or the King James copy cat that proceeded it - nearly word for word.

    Instead of basing our challenging questions and different opinions, feelings and points that we wish to make upon the trinitarian translations - we can look to the auctual manuscripts and place faithg in Gods word in the auctual words that are therein and some wish to agree upon the auctual message that they transmit and some wish to trust in the trinitarian translations that were written nearly 2000 years after Yahoshua - by trinitarian kings, popes and government authorities that were already perseciuting others trying to seperate from their government church system.

    They created a play - script or a movie, placing their ideas and social norms that existed in current modern society into the cast.

    This is why they were burning and torturing and imprisoning people just before they produced the translation ( Concerning the very translation ) itself being translated by others . They still continued to drive people out of England and Europe and expel and persecute people who thought different religious ideologies than they. Many, many Pilgrims and Puritans and Quakers left England because they could not legally exist while being separated from the Church OF England - they would be killed, persecuted and tortured and reduced into nothings of society. They sought to separate from the Church of England; King Charles the Ist and many other Trinitarian Kings ( TRINITARIANS ) would threaten them with harsh punishments if they did not obey the Church of England in religious faiths. Most of them starved to death and died of diseases and other related deaths.

    To the Church OF England - this was just a little, tiny, needed change in their society that really never mattered or affected the entirety of the body of society. This was their attitude. And their attitude when they made their translation. I believe that they completely perverted the original manuscripts and sought to insert their pre concieved doctrines..

    And this was just in England alone. What about the Millions of total victims throughout Europe who suffered at the hands of the Trinitarian Governmental Translators. This is why it took the Roman Catholic Church nearly 500 years after Christ to produce a Bible into the Latin / Italian language and why they waited until nearly 2000 years after Christ to make the Bible into any other language on the entire planet outside of Latin / Italian. - while butchering, murdering, slaughtering and persecuting others for their faiths that contradicted their established faith and doctrines. This is why the earlier translators such as Wycliffe, Coverdale and The Tyndale Bible, Bishops Bible and Even Martian Luther have contradictions in their translations that are against the later Catholic and Protestant Churches transliterations - because the earlier translators attempted to create their own twist that molded and contorted into the fans and group whom which they were translating for. Today's translators do the same exact thing.

    But readers come to the realization that this was all of God's plan - whatever happened - God made it all happen- King James Translators and other translators just had to simply - be inspired by God.

    The moderator was sure to make it clear that I could re - post but that I should divide it into two separate posts. Sorry to all for making a too long of a long post. I trully hope Your day is going well. Thank for considering my post and for quoting it.
    Shalom.

    Thank you for your post. It sounds like you are against the Trinity. True?

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    If a Trinitarian believer was to discuss their Trinitarian faith with me - no doubt, they would quickly come to the conclusion that I am against the trinity. But as honest person, interacting with other honest people of various biblical translated theological perspectives that exist - I make every attempt to explain also - that my faith is not just based in the perspective of being an " anti - Trinitarian " and not focusing in to place the center of attention on highlighted, specific, key, chosen limited verse and expressing these selected verses for my faith and belief. I look at what the Trinitarian Translation is saying and I compare to the Original Manuscript in the Greek and Hebrew.
    For example Exo 20: verses - 20 – 21.
    Here is an example of what I am trying to say in Exo 20: - 20 and 21

    21:20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. :21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
    Here, the Trinitarian Translators say that “ if a man smite / wounds or kills his servant or maid and they die - he is to be punished. Notwithstanding / but if the servant or maid continue living or working a day or two after he is wounded- then he shall not be punished: for He IS his money. In other words, a boss can wound and beat his worker and if the worker does not die in at least two days time from the time that he was injured – then the boss is free of all punishment resulting in the death of his worker.
    The Trinitarian Translators indeed make it sound like that the MANUSCRIPTS are auctuactly saying that SOMEONE is allowed to beat their slave to death - just so long as it takes longer than a day for the death. But this is horribly mistranslated. If we go to the original manuscripts - for exactly what they say - from the original Hebrew - instead of placing all of our trust in the Trinitarian Translation, we find that it says something totally and completely different.

    Reading from the original manuscripts we can find out what it is really saying - and here are the all the individual Hebrew words laid out ( word for word ) in the exact order and in the exact way they are recorded in the manuscripts. And here is the word for word translation of each and every single word as layed out in the ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS. No words are added to make conjectures, assumption or rationalizations, explanation or justifications - to what each word is saying. This begins directly at verse 20 --- to verse 21

    For - H3588 a man - H376 killing - H5221 himse- lf - H853 - servant H5650 or - H176 himself - H853 maid - H519 rod - H7626 is dead - H4191 under - H8478 hand - H3027 avenging - 5358 avenging H5358 - 21: truly - H389 set - H5975 that day - H3117 or - H176 that day - H3117 not - H3808 avenging - H5358 avenging - H5358 for - H3588 their - H1931 price, cost, money - H3701 - This is every single word in the manuscripts - laid out in order,word for word exactly - no added explainations and please just read the real manuscript message - here below -
    WHAT IT REALLY SAYS. And let’s go back at least two verses before this and see the context beginning at verse :18

    Exo 21:18 And if men strive together, and one smite another with a stone, or with his fist, and he die not, but keepeth his bed: :19 If he rises again, and walk abroad upon his staff, then shall he that smote him be quit: only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall cause him to be thoroughly healed. 20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. :21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money. * : 20: for a man who kills himself a servant or himself a maid with the rod who dies under his hand is to receive vengeance /punishment. ----- 21: truly set in that very day - or the day of not avenging the vengeance, for their cost / price / money.

    The two verses 20 and 21 are simply saying that the KILLER can be responsible for killing a servant or a maid. And the payment is due in the very day that the killer receives punishment / penalty - and payment can be due also / even upon another day AFTER / beyond the day - that the punishment is given to the killer. The killer cannot get out of the payment - and that even after the day that he receives punishment - he is still responsible to pay the price for killing someone's servant.

    This is very different from Trinitarian Translations. My question is – if the manuscripts are transmitting a different message – and i see the difference, why or how would I rationalize or realistically have a discussion with someone who believes in the Trinitarian Translation concerning the verse - while only looking upon the translations alone. ? if this mistranslation is throughout the entire translation ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by advenureside View Post

    If a Trinitarian believer was to discuss their Trinitarian faith with me - no doubt, they would quickly come to the conclusion that I am against the trinity. But as honest person, interacting with other honest people of various biblical translated theological perspectives that exist - I make every attempt to explain also - that my faith is not just based in the perspective of being an " anti - Trinitarian " and not focusing in to place the center of attention on highlighted, specific, key, chosen limited verse and expressing these selected verses for my faith and belief. I look at what the Trinitarian Translation is saying and I compare to the Original Manuscript in the Greek and Hebrew.
    For example Exo 20: verses - 2021.
    Here is an example of what I am trying to say in Exo 20: - 20 and 21

    21:20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. :21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
    Here, the Trinitarian Translators say that “ if a man smite / wounds or kills his servant or maid and they die - he is to be punished. Notwithstanding / but if the servant or maid continue living or working a day or two after he is wounded- then he shall not be punished: for He IS his money. In other words, a boss can wound and beat his worker and if the worker does not die in at least two days time from the time that he was injured – then the boss is free of all punishment resulting in the death of his worker.
    The Trinitarian Translators indeed make it sound like that the MANUSCRIPTS are auctuactly saying that SOMEONE is allowed to beat their slave to death - just so long as it takes longer than a day for the death. But this is horribly mistranslated. If we go to the original manuscripts - for exactly what they say - from the original Hebrew - instead of placing all of our trust in the Trinitarian Translation, we find that it says something totally and completely different.

    Reading from the original manuscripts we can find out what it is really saying - and here are the all the individual Hebrew words laid out ( word for word ) in the exact order and in the exact way they are recorded in the manuscripts. And here is the word for word translation of each and every single word as layed out in the ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS. No words are added to make conjectures, assumption or rationalizations, explanation or justifications - to what each word is saying. This begins directly at verse 20 --- to verse 21

    For - H3588 a man - H376 killing - H5221 himse- lf - H853 - servant H5650 or - H176 himself - H853 maid - H519 rod - H7626 is dead - H4191 under - H8478 hand - H3027 avenging - 5358 avenging H5358 - 21: truly - H389 set - H5975 that day - H3117 or - H176 that day - H3117 not - H3808 avenging - H5358 avenging - H5358 for - H3588 their - H1931 price, cost, money - H3701 - This is every single word in the manuscripts - laid out in order,word for word exactly - no added explainations and please just read the real manuscript message - here below -
    WHAT IT REALLY SAYS. And let’s go back at least two verses before this and see the context beginning at verse :18

    Exo 21:18 And if men strive together, and one smite another with a stone, or with his fist, and he die not, but keepeth his bed: :19 If he rises again, and walk abroad upon his staff, then shall he that smote him be quit: only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall cause him to be thoroughly healed. 20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. :21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money. * : 20: for a man who kills himself a servant or himself a maid with the rod who dies under his hand is to receive vengeance /punishment. ----- 21: truly set in that very day - or the day of not avenging the vengeance, for their cost / price / money.

    The two verses 20 and 21 are simply saying that the KILLER can be responsible for killing a servant or a maid. And the payment is due in the very day that the killer receives punishment / penalty - and payment can be due also / even upon another day AFTER / beyond the day - that the punishment is given to the killer. The killer cannot get out of the payment - and that even after the day that he receives punishment - he is still responsible to pay the price for killing someone's servant.

    This is very different from Trinitarian Translations. My question is – if the manuscripts are transmitting a different message – and i see the difference, why or how would I rationalize or realistically have a discussion with someone who believes in the Trinitarian Translation concerning the verse - while only looking upon the translations alone. ? if this mistranslation is throughout the entire translation ?
    So what is the difference that you see?

    Yes there is such a thing as a Trinitarian translation. I don't know what would make or cause a difference of this kind, whatever the difference is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by advenureside View Post
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS]But readers come to the realization that this was all of God's plan - whatever happened - God made it all happen- King James Translators and other translators just had to simply - be inspired by God.
    You misspoke. No scripture says men/people are "inspired." All scripture is given by inspiration.
    Saint John W

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    You are right John W. The Bible says that all scripture came to the prophets by inspiration of The Holy Spirit and also - not by their own interpretation.

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