User Tag List

Page 1 of 22 123411 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 329

Thread: Can a Jew be saved without believing the Trinity?

  1. #1
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    17,591
    Thanks
    63
    Thanked 826 Times in 761 Posts

    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    121116

    Can a Jew be saved without believing the Trinity?

    I was a Christian without Trinitarian belief. I believe that a Jew can be saved without a belief in the Trinity. Does anyone want to challenge me on this? I am willing to discuss or have a conversation.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

  2. #2
    Over 750 post club
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    880
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 158 Times in 123 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    11748
    Greetings Jacob,
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I was a Christian without Trinitarian belief. I believe that a Jew can be saved without a belief in the Trinity. Does anyone want to challenge me on this? I am willing to discuss or have a conversation.
    I commend you on your rejection of the Trinity, and I suggest that anyone who has a proper understanding of the OT basis of the NT would also reject the Trinity. I believe that there is One God the Father, and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TrevorL For Your Post:

    Lazy afternoon (December 25th, 2018),meshak (December 4th, 2018)

  4. #3
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    17,591
    Thanks
    63
    Thanked 826 Times in 761 Posts

    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    121116
    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings Jacob,I commend you on your rejection of the Trinity, and I suggest that anyone who has a proper understanding of the OT basis of the NT would also reject the Trinity. I believe that there is One God the Father, and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
    God is our Father and the Father of Jesus Christ who is the only begotten Son of God. Any problem with this?

    Thank you. I think that you got it right.

  5. #4
    Over 750 post club
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    880
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 158 Times in 123 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    11748
    Greetings again Jacob,
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    God is our Father and the Father of Jesus Christ who is the only begotten Son of God. Any problem with this?
    There is no problem with the statement that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, but there is a wide range of opinion of what this represents. For my part, I believe that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God because God was his Father in the conception and birth process, while Mary was his mother Luke 1:34-35. Jesus was also the Son of God because of his spiritual development from a child Luke 2:40, 52 until his ministry when he was revealed as the Son of God, full of grace and truth John 1:14. He is also the Son of God because of his resurrection unto glory Romans 1:1-4, and is now seated at the right hand of God the Father Psalm 110:1 awaiting the time when God will send him back to the earth to establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth Acts 1:11, 3:19-21, Isaiah 2:1-4, Daniel 2:35,44, Zechariah 14.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to TrevorL For Your Post:

    meshak (December 4th, 2018)

  7. #5
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    17,591
    Thanks
    63
    Thanked 826 Times in 761 Posts

    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    121116
    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings again Jacob,There is no problem with the statement that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, but there is a wide range of opinion of what this represents. For my part, I believe that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God because God was his Father in the conception and birth process, while Mary was his mother Luke 1:34-35. Jesus was also the Son of God because of his spiritual development from a child Luke 2:40, 52 until his ministry when he was revealed as the Son of God, full of grace and truth John 1:14. He is also the Son of God because of his resurrection unto glory Romans 1:1-4, and is now seated at the right hand of God the Father Psalm 110:1 awaiting the time when God will send him back to the earth to establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth Acts 1:11, 3:19-21, Isaiah 2:1-4, Daniel 2:35,44, Zechariah 14.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
    Again thank you for your post. I read all the scripture and I value the wisdom in your statements. I cannot agree with everything due to my lack of knowledge. I do not know where or how to disagree. For example, will there be a Kingdom of God upon the earth? Do we ever call Jesus the Son of God and not say the only begotten Son of God?

  8. #6
    Over 750 post club
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    880
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 158 Times in 123 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    11748
    Greetings again Jacob,
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Again thank you for your post. I read all the scripture and I value the wisdom in your statements. I cannot agree with everything due to my lack of knowledge. I do not know where or how to disagree. For example, will there be a Kingdom of God upon the earth? Do we ever call Jesus the Son of God and not say the only begotten Son of God?
    I suggest that some of these decisions are made over time, after careful comparison of differing views. I believe that there will be a Kingdom of God upon the earth, and not only base this upon the previous quotations but many others, for example the sequence in Ezekiel 38-39, 40-48. Also some view such terms "the Son of God" and "the only begotten Son of God" differently to how I understand these terms. Many do not connect "only begotten" with the conception and birth of Jesus. The two phrases have a range of meaning, partially overlapping, but "only begotten" has reference to the process of his birth as a human.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to TrevorL For Your Post:

    Lazy afternoon (December 25th, 2018)

  10. #7
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    17,591
    Thanks
    63
    Thanked 826 Times in 761 Posts

    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    121116
    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings again Jacob,I suggest that some of these decisions are made over time, after careful comparison of differing views. I believe that there will be a Kingdom of God upon the earth, and not only base this upon the previous quotations but many others, for example the sequence in Ezekiel 38-39, 40-48. Also some view such terms "the Son of God" and "the only begotten Son of God" differently to how I understand these terms. Many do not connect "only begotten" with the conception and birth of Jesus. The two phrases have a range of meaning, partially overlapping, but "only begotten" has reference to the process of his birth as a human.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
    Fair enough. Learning the details of what you are saying would be interesting to me if you have the time to teach them.

  11. #8
    Silver Member Clete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Seated in the heavenly places at God's right hand, in Him!
    Posts
    9,380
    Thanks
    590
    Thanked 6,449 Times in 3,416 Posts

    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147767
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I was a Christian without Trinitarian belief. I believe that a Jew can be saved without a belief in the Trinity. Does anyone want to challenge me on this? I am willing to discuss or have a conversation.
    What does being a Jew have to do with it? - NOTHING!

    All have sinned and are in need of a savior.

    God became a man, whom we call Jesus, and died as an atoning sacrifice for sin.

    Those who believe that and call upon Jesus to be their savior and believe that God raise Him from the dead will be saved.

    This applies both to the Jew and the gentile alike.

    Notice no mention of the Trinity. There are hundreds of biblical truths that are just as absolutely true as the sky is blue but that one is not required to believe in order to be saved.


    Resting in Him,
    Clete

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

  12. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Clete For Your Post:

    7djengo7 (December 7th, 2018),drbrumley (December 4th, 2018),JudgeRightly (December 4th, 2018),Right Divider (December 4th, 2018),steko (December 4th, 2018),way 2 go (December 24th, 2018)

  13. #9
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    17,591
    Thanks
    63
    Thanked 826 Times in 761 Posts

    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    121116
    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    What does being a Jew have to do with it? - NOTHING!

    All have sinned and are in need of a savior.

    God became a man, whom we call Jesus, and died as an atoning sacrifice for sin.

    Those who believe that and call upon Jesus to be their savior and believe that God raise Him from the dead will be saved.

    This applies both to the Jew and the gentile alike.

    Notice no mention of the Trinity. There are hundreds of biblical truths that are just as absolutely true as the sky is blue but that one is not required to believe in order to be saved.


    Resting in Him,
    Clete
    All good!

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jacob For Your Post:

    Clete (December 4th, 2018),steko (December 4th, 2018)

  15. #10
    Over 1500 post club Idolater's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Mass
    Posts
    1,740
    Thanks
    205
    Thanked 309 Times in 257 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    29853
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I was a Christian without Trinitarian belief. I believe that a Jew can be saved without a belief in the Trinity. Does anyone want to challenge me on this? I am willing to discuss or have a conversation.
    A Sadducee can't be saved. Sadducees don't believe that God raises the dead.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

  16. #11
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    17,591
    Thanks
    63
    Thanked 826 Times in 761 Posts

    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    121116
    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    A Sadducee can't be saved. Sadducees don't believe that God raises the dead.
    All Sadducees believe that?

    Does saved mean that your sins are forgiven? And then you will be resurrected? Or, all people will be resurrected?

    Edit correction you said don't believe.

  17. #12
    Over 750 post club
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    880
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 158 Times in 123 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    11748
    Greetings again Jacob and Greetings Clete,
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Fair enough. Learning the details of what you are saying would be interesting to me if you have the time to teach them.
    I suggest that this is a long process, and you need to do some of the ground work yourself, by reading and trying to understand various parts of the Bible including the preaching by the Apostles in The Acts. One starting point is to fill in the detail of what Philip preached to the Samaritans, by comparing and expanding “the things concerning the Name of Jesus Christ” and “the things concerning the Kingdom of God” from the details given in the detailed speeches by Peter in Acts 2 and Acts 3 and Paul’s speech in Acts 13.
    Acts 8:5–12 (KJV): 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    All have sinned and are in need of a savior.
    God became a man, whom we call Jesus, and died as an atoning sacrifice for sin.
    Those who believe that and call upon Jesus to be their savior and believe that God raise Him from the dead will be saved. This applies both to the Jew and the gentile alike.
    Notice no mention of the Trinity. There are hundreds of biblical truths that are just as absolutely true as the sky is blue but that one is not required to believe in order to be saved.
    Your summary of what is required appears to be far short of the example of Philip’s preaching and what the Samaritans believed. Firstly you have not mentioned the Kingdom of God, let alone the things concerning the Kingdom of God. Also I disagree with your “God became a man” as Jesus is the Son of God, and I question whether your “died as an atoning sacrifice for sin” agrees with “the things concerning the name of Jesus Christ”. Thus the two major categories of the preaching of the Apostles and disciples are not covered by your summary.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

  18. #13
    Over 1500 post club Idolater's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Mass
    Posts
    1,740
    Thanks
    205
    Thanked 309 Times in 257 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    29853
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    All Sadducees believe that?
    Mt22:23KJV Ac23:8KJV
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Does saved mean that your sins are forgiven? And then you will be resurrected? Or, all people will be resurrected?
    Being saved means: Does the idea of Jesus rising from the dead, that He is not dead, make you happy and joyful? If yes, would you like to believe that He is risen from the dead, that He is not dead? If you do, and you believe that Jesus is risen from the dead, then you are saved, and you will be saved. That's what 'saved' means. If you are clear on that, we can discuss other things, but you led this part of your post with 'Does saved mean...' and that's more important than whatever else you're asking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Edit correction you said don't believe.
    OK.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

  19. #14
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    17,591
    Thanks
    63
    Thanked 826 Times in 761 Posts

    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    121116
    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings again Jacob and Greetings Clete, I suggest that this is a long process, and you need to do some of the ground work yourself, by reading and trying to understand various parts of the Bible including the preaching by the Apostles in The Acts. One starting point is to fill in the detail of what Philip preached to the Samaritans, by comparing and expanding “the things concerning the Name of Jesus Christ” and “the things concerning the Kingdom of God” from the details given in the detailed speeches by Peter in Acts 2 and Acts 3 and Paul’s speech in Acts 13.
    Acts 8:5–12 (KJV): 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
    Thank you. Yes, from Matthew 5 I know that Jesus preached the kingdom of heaven.

  20. #15
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    17,591
    Thanks
    63
    Thanked 826 Times in 761 Posts

    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    121116
    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    Mt22:23KJV Ac23:8KJV
    Being saved means: Does the idea of Jesus rising from the dead, that He is not dead, make you happy and joyful? If yes, would you like to believe that He is risen from the dead, that He is not dead? If you do, and you believe that Jesus is risen from the dead, then you are saved, and you will be saved. That's what 'saved' means. If you are clear on that, we can discuss other things, but you led this part of your post with 'Does saved mean...' and that's more important than whatever else you're asking.
    OK.
    I believe that Jesus is risen from the dead.

    Angel or spirit? Both? Can you explain?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us