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Thread: Uniquely Christian and Jew but redeemed

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Sure, if A GENTILE wants to walk contrary to Scripture...

    Acts 21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 21:19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

    21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

    Have at it "Jacob."

    Rom. 5:6-8.
    My name truly is Jacob. Thank you for affirming me and at the same time pointing out that Gentiles are not required to do so. I grew up being born a Gentile and converted to Judaism although I have not become an official convert to Judaism (I still believe that I am a convert even though I was grafted in).

    Here are some verses that have the words grafted in in them.

    Romans 11:17 NASB - But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,

    Romans 11:19 NASB - You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."

    Romans 11:23 NASB - And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    My name truly is Jacob. Thank you for affirming me and at the same time pointing out that Gentiles are not required to do so. I grew up being born a Gentile and converted to Judaism although I have not become an official convert to Judaism (I still believe that I am a convert even though I was grafted in).

    Here are some verses that have the words grafted in in them.

    Romans 11:17 NASB - But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,

    Romans 11:19 NASB - You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."

    Romans 11:23 NASB - And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
    The grafting in merely refers to the door of faith have been opened to the Gentiles.

    That is all it refers to.

    To the fact that the Gentiles now had the direct access to salvation that Israel alone had once had.

    Acts 14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.

    Well how did that happen?

    Was it through Israel's rise, as Prophesied, say, in...

    Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. 60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. 60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. 60:4 Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side. 60:5 Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.

    No, not through Israel's rise, at all.

    Rather, through Israel's fall.

    Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

    Gentiles were now in a place of blessing from God that had once been the Nation Israel's.

    Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

    Til then, Israel is even now an enemy of God....

    11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

    Very few people have any idea what verse 32 actually means.

    It means that Israel was now no better off than the Gentiles had once been.

    It means that Israel was now Lo Ammi - NOT My People.

    It means that Israel was now Uncircumcision.

    It means that a Jew now had to come God as Uncircumcision.

    When did "their fall" take place? In...

    Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. 7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

    Or as Paul would later put that...

    Romans 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 2:18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

    Notice...

    2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

    Why?

    2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

    BOTH were now "under sin." BOTH were now UNCIRCUMCISION.

    Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

    What did Israel do with this undeserved mercy, when it was offered them?

    Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. 13:49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region. 13:50 But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts.

    Result?

    Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

    The salvation of God is now among the Gentiles.

    "Even as Abraham believed God" back when he was "in Uncircumcision" (back when he was a Gentile, and his faith "was counted for righteousness" Romans 4.

    The Jew now has to come to God as Uncircumcision.

    Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    You've got the order backwards, Jacob.

    Rom. 5:6-8.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    The grafting in merely refers to the door of faith have been opened to the Gentiles.

    That is all it refers to.

    To the fact that the Gentiles now had the direct access to salvation that Israel alone had once had.

    Acts 14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.

    Well how did that happen?

    Was it through Israel's rise, as Prophesied, say, in...

    Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. 60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. 60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. 60:4 Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side. 60:5 Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.

    No, not through Israel's rise, at all.

    Rather, through Israel's fall.

    Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

    Gentiles were now in a place of blessing from God that had once been the Nation Israel's.

    Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

    Til then, Israel is even now an enemy of God....

    11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

    Very few people have any idea what verse 32 actually means.

    It means that Israel was now no better off than the Gentiles had once been.

    It means that Israel was now Lo Ammi - NOT My People.

    It means that Israel was now Uncircumcision.

    It means that a Jew now had to come God as Uncircumcision.

    When did "their fall" take place? In...

    Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. 7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

    Or as Paul would later put that...

    Romans 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 2:18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

    Notice...

    2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

    Why?

    2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

    BOTH were now "under sin." BOTH were now UNCIRCUMCISION.

    Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

    What did Israel do with this undeserved mercy, when it was offered them?

    Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. 13:49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region. 13:50 But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts.

    Result?

    Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

    The salvation of God is now among the Gentiles.

    "Even as Abraham believed God" back when he was "in Uncircumcision" (back when he was a Gentile, and his faith "was counted for righteousness" Romans 4.

    The Jew now has to come to God as Uncircumcision.

    Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    You've got the order backwards, Jacob.

    Rom. 5:6-8.
    Is it possible to be a proselyte or convert to Israel and or Judaism? Because otherwise what are we grafted in to? I am not sure what order you are talking about being backwards.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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    The New Testament when referring to Israel only refers to Israel in spirit under the new covenant in which Jesus is the atonement alone and complete. But even as much as that we are still bound by the moral law(10 commandments) 12 by count taking in to account the 11th and 12 commanded by Yashua. Itís important to note that the Jews were given the opportunity to accept Yashua as the Mashiach. But because the failed in the whole. The 12 tribes of all but 3 being lost by that time are in reference to Godís chosen people. Those who believe in the Mashiach in the corporal and Divinity of the Christ.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mhask68 View Post
    The New Testament when referring to Israel only refers to Israel in spirit under the new covenant in which Jesus is the atonement alone and complete. But even as much as that we are still bound by the moral law(10 commandments) 12 by count taking in to account the 11th and 12 commanded by Yashua. Itís important to note that the Jews were given the opportunity to accept Yashua as the Mashiach. But because the failed in the whole. The 12 tribes of all but 3 being lost by that time are in reference to Godís chosen people. Those who believe in the Mashiach in the corporal and Divinity of the Christ.


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    What two commandments of Yeshua are you speaking of? Love God with all your heart, soul, and might, and love your neighbor as yourself are found in the Torah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    What two commandments of Yeshua are you speaking of? Love God with all your heart, soul, and might, and love your neighbor as yourself are found in the Torah.
    Yep... they were not new.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Yep... they were not new.
    I am glad that you know this.

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    No they arenít new even then but the did sum up the whole of the law.


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    There are variations on the first commandment to love God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    There are variations on the first commandment to love God.
    Regardless of variation, it was used to combat the legalistic approach that the ancient Jews used to follow the law, thus loosing site of the spirit of the law. Essential to this mindset. Yes follow the moral law. But be mindful of the love of God and return the love to him as a matter of love not a matter of keeping the law alone and expecting God to bless you when you donít know the underlying purpose of it which is love of neighbor, love of self and more importantly love of God.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mhask68 View Post
    Regardless of variation, it was used to combat the legalistic approach that the ancient Jews used to follow the law, thus loosing site of the spirit of the law. Essential to this mindset. Yes follow the moral law. But be mindful of the love of God and return the love to him as a matter of love not a matter of keeping the law alone and expecting God to bless you when you donít know the underlying purpose of it which is love of neighbor, love of self and more importantly love of God.


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    Love God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your might. Love your neighbor as yourself.

    Heart soul might
    Heart soul resources
    Heart soul strength
    Heart soul mind strength

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    What more can I say other than a אָמֵן


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    Quote Originally Posted by mhask68 View Post
    What more can I say other than a אָמֵן


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    Shalom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    Isn't, though?

    I'm looking at You.
    And Im looking at you
    Even in the very best of situations, voting is still an unmitigated failure. The fact that any simple majority of individuals (mob) can determine an outcome that adversely affects the minority (mob rule) is against all natural rights. In the United State today, all who vote harm others so that they might benefit. By voting, they are also sanctioning theft of private property at the point of a gun, and the redistribution of that property to those who did not earn it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drbrumley View Post
    And Im looking at you
    Finally....
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

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