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Thread: WHAT DOES GEN 3:15 MEAN ?

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    WHAT DOES GEN 3:15 MEAN ?

    Hi to all and Gen 3:15 AND I will put enmity between THEE and the Woman and her SEED , it shall BRUISE thy Head and thou shall Bruise his HEEL !!

    Who is the THEE SEED talking about ??

    Who is HER SEED !!

    dan p

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi to all and Gen 3:15 AND I will put enmity between THEE and the Woman and her SEED , it shall BRUISE thy Head and thou shall Bruise his HEEL !!

    Who is the THEE SEED talking about ??

    Who is HER SEED !!

    dan p
    I'll take a stab at it. Jesus called Barjesus a child of the devil. So, maybe it's the Jews who rejected our Lord when He came...those who crucified Him. The Seed of woman would be Jesus.

    Acts 13:6 And when they had gone through the isle unto Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew, whose name was Barjesus:

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    I'm glad this was brought up, because there are a lot of interesting viewpoints about it.

    Do you want to explore all the viewpoints, Dan, or do you have one in mind that you want to discuss in this thread?

    We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
    They already know monsters exist.
    We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    I'll take a stab at it. Jesus called Barjesus a child of the devil. So, maybe it's the Jews who rejected our Lord when He came...those who crucified Him. The Seed of woman would be Jesus.

    Acts 13:6 And when they had gone through the isle unto Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew, whose name was Barjesus:
    Hi Glorydaz.
    I've seen so many arguments for both sides of differing viewpoints, so if you don't mind if I ask a few questions to get into the details of it ......

    Some men being called children of the devil can have a couple of connotations.
    1. physical descendant, a child born
    2. someone that displays similar characteristics
    In other words, one can be a child of Abraham because they are #1. physical descendant or #2. someone that shares his same characteristic of faith.
    Likewise "father of lies" implies that all liars (displaying similar characteristic) are his kids (whether a physical descendant or not).


    So, in Genesis 3:15 is it using "seed" as #1 or #2 ?

    We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
    They already know monsters exist.
    We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Hi Glorydaz.
    I've seen so many arguments for both sides of differing viewpoints, so if you don't mind if I ask a few questions to get into the details of it ......

    Some men being called children of the devil can have a couple of connotations.
    1. physical descendant, a child born
    2. someone that displays similar characteristics
    In other words, one can be a child of Abraham because they are #1. physical descendant or #2. someone that shares his same characteristic of faith.
    Likewise "father of lies" implies that all liars (displaying similar characteristic) are his kids (whether a physical descendant or not).


    So, in Genesis 3:15 is it using "seed" as #1 or #2 ?
    I was trying to guess what Dan might be driving at. I'm glad you came by to help.

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    It certainly couldn't be physical descendants of the devil. So, it must be #2.

    Because of the bruised heel and head, though, I figure it might be the unbelieving Jews...those who crucified Him. They were blinded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    I'm glad this was brought up, because there are a lot of interesting viewpoints about it.

    Do you want to explore all the viewpoints, Dan, or do you have one in mind that you want to discuss in this thread?
    Hi and what I would do is read verse 14 and then verse 15 see if these 2 verses can connect !!

    dan p

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi to all and Gen 3:15 AND I will put enmity between THEE and the Woman and her SEED , it shall BRUISE thy Head and thou shall Bruise his HEEL !!

    Who is the THEE SEED talking about ??

    Who is HER SEED !!

    dan p
    Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    Her seed was Able. His was Cain.

    Them and their direct and or in direct descendents, spiritually.

    Able was of God in his spiritual outlook.

    Cain was of the Devil, in his spirit spiritual outlook.

    John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

    Able heard (obeyed) God's words, Cain did not.

    Result?

    He murdered his brother.

    Genesis 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. 4:8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

    John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    So the bruising is between the children of God (those who hear or obey Him) and the children of the Devil (those who hear or obey him).

    Though this hearing / obeying is a topic in itself.

    But the bruising did not end with those two. They were merely a type in a long line of two kinds of children, spiritually.

    Isaiah 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

    All being shadows of...

    John 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;

    Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

    1st Advent attempt at solving for it all.

    Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

    2nd Advent victory at solving for it all:

    Romans 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

    Romans 5:6-8, in each - our stead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    Her seed was Able. His was Cain.

    Them and their direct and or in direct descendents, spiritually.

    Able was of God in his spiritual outlook.

    Cain was of the Devil, in his spirit spiritual outlook.
    If "seed" means one of the same spiritual outlook, then the "seed" of the woman would be the one with the same spiritual outlook of the woman (Eve).
    What was Eve's spiritual outlook?

    We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
    They already know monsters exist.
    We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi and what I would do is read verse 14 and then verse 15 see if these 2 verses can connect !!

    dan p
    Then connect them and let's see what you come up with.

    We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
    They already know monsters exist.
    We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi to all and Gen 3:15 AND I will put enmity between THEE and the Woman and her SEED , it shall BRUISE thy Head and thou shall Bruise his HEEL !!

    Who is the THEE SEED talking about ??
    Who is HER SEED !!
    dan p
    Please consider that in another place where seeds are a metaphor for people that the good seed are the PEOPLE OF THE KINGDOM (elect), sown into the world by the Son of Man and are probably referred to here as HER SEED,

    and the tares or bad seed are the PEOPLE OF THE EVIL ONE (non-elect), sown into the world by the devil, who is probably referred to here as the serpent's seed, the dragon of old found in Rev 12: 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray.

    While the seed of the women who is bruised is Christ, it also refers to His lost sheep by metonymy.
    I Champion GOD’s holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ttruscott View Post
    Please consider that in another place where seeds are a metaphor for people that the good seed are the PEOPLE OF THE KINGDOM (elect), sown into the world by the Son of Man and are probably referred to here as HER SEED,

    and the tares or bad seed are the PEOPLE OF THE EVIL ONE (non-elect), sown into the world by the devil, who is probably referred to here as the serpent's seed, the dragon of old found in Rev 12: 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray.

    While the seed of the women who is bruised is Christ, it also refers to His lost sheep by metonymy.

    Hi and the GOOD TARES and the BAD TARES is explained in Matt, leaving no doubt as to it's meaning !!

    dan p

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Then connect them and let's see what you come up with.
    Hi and I will in time and give my take !!

    dan p

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    Her seed was Able. His was Cain.

    Them and their direct and or in direct descendents, spiritually.

    Able was of God in his spiritual outlook.

    Cain was of the Devil, in his spirit spiritual outlook.

    John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

    Able heard (obeyed) God's words, Cain did not.

    Result?

    He murdered his brother.

    Genesis 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. 4:8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

    John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    So the bruising is between the children of God (those who hear or obey Him) and the children of the Devil (those who hear or obey him).

    Though this hearing / obeying is a topic in itself.

    But the bruising did not end with those two. They were merely a type in a long line of two kinds of children, spiritually.

    Isaiah 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

    All being shadows of...

    John 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;

    Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

    1st Advent attempt at solving for it all.

    Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

    2nd Advent victory at solving for it all:

    Romans 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

    Romans 5:6-8, in each - our stead.
    Hi , Danoh , study first Gen 3:14 and see what verse 15 than means !!

    dan p

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    If "seed" means one of the same spiritual outlook, then the "seed" of the woman would be the one with the same spiritual outlook of the woman (Eve).
    What was Eve's spiritual outlook?
    Hey Tam, what's doin - hope you and yours had a great Holiday.

    _________

    To answer you - if I understood you properly, that is...

    What I "see" is that the emphasis goes - from a focus on between the woman and thee, to a focus on between thy seed and her seed.

    The rest of the narrative (the rest of Scripture) is focused on whom - on thy seed, and her seed.

    And unfortunately, it was her decided on spiritual outlook or "mind" or focus that helped bring about that mess to begin with.

    Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

    She unwittingly made a bad choice - from an unsound outlook the serpent beguiled her into looking at things from.

    2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

    1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

    She unwittingly allowed her mind or spiritual outlook to be corrupted by that "father of lies."

    She "listened" to the wrong "voice."

    Obviously, Cain did likewise.

    Making him the seed "in spirit" of...

    John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    This outlook issue is a constant in Scripture.

    Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

    In conrast to...

    2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    In contrast to...

    2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

    And so on.

    Thank God then, for Romans 5:6-8.

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