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Thread: Robert's Gospel According to the Apostle Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Paul asked why subjegate yourself to the laws “according to the commandments and doctrines OF MEN??”

    He did NOT teach “do what thou whilst”...

    It remains “here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith of Yahushua”...jews are only keeping something close to that faith...

    Your “lawlessness” is not advocated in the New Covenant...

    Christians are not led by laws, rules or commandments. They are led by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will not lead one into sin. Living by laws, rules and commandments will cause one to sin, Romans 7:8-11.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Yes, by the deeds of the law or religion no flesh will be justified in his sight. Let me define the word religion. RELIGION: man's preoccupation with his own spirituality, which is himself. Paul used the word religion to describe his life as a Pharisee, Acts 26:5.

    Religion is not of faith. Religious people usually have faith in their religion, this is why they join a religious church or a religious organization. When the Bible speaks of faith it is not faith in a religion, it is always faith in Christ. When Paul said, "The Just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. He meant by faith in Christ and his Gospel.
    The problem with this is that the word "nomou" (translated "law") already has a definition, of which there is no similarity to ANY KNOWN definition of religion.
    In your mind, you equate law and religion as "basically the same thing" but that is a personal concept, not a defined, agreed on, widely accepted reality.
    So what you are doing is replacing a word that has an acceptable, agreeable definition with a personal concept, which is changing the text of what was written.
    Do you agree?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Christians are not led by laws, rules or commandments. They are led by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will not lead one into sin. Living by laws, rules and commandments will cause one to sin, Romans 7:8-11.
    The Law is to reveal sin...but if the Law is abolished or is no longer necessary or binding the Holy Spirit would not need to lead at all...as there would be no sin without Law

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Paul used the word religion to describe his life as a Pharisee, Acts 26:5.
    Yes, but Paul did NOT use YOUR definition of religion. He used the word "threskeias" which has an agreeable, acceptable non-negotiable definition.
    Do you agree?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    When you join an organized church you are required to abide by their by laws, are you not?
    You are not making sound sense here at all, Robert.

    You belong to the church invisible of all the saints. To claim that that church has no laws, whether true or not, is to state a law that states there is no law. It is inescapable. The church militant was mandated from Scripture to assemble corporately and confess the truths from the sound patterns of Scripture.

    Robert, law is a system of rules that a particular community recognizes as regulating the actions of its members and may enforce by the imposition of penalties. To argue there is no law in Christianity is to argue chaos wherein we stand for nothing and believe in anything. This is manifest nonsense. We are commanded by Scripture to define what is in and what is out else we are but a rag tag band of wanderers seeking who knows what. The church militant is imperfect to be sure, for it is composed of imperfect saints.

    Paul wrote to Timothy that he should “follow the pattern of the sound words” (2 Tim. 1:13). Here pattern, ὑποτύπωσις, is “the form of sound words.” Every discipline has its own set of specialist words. The Apostle Paul does not simply say, “memorize the Old Testament.” These patterns include what was taught in 2 Thess. 2:15, “So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions [παράδοσις] that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.” Also 1 Cor. 11:2 “Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions [παράδοσις] even as I delivered them to you.” See also 2 Thess. 3:6; 1 Cor. 11:23-26; 15:1-4.

    If you want to argue the law (duty to God, duty to fellow man) delivered to Moses is abrogated, then do so. You have not. You cannot.

    A person claiming to be a member of Our Lord's Bride who believes one can do or believe whatever he or she desires without consequence (penalties), is a very confused person.

    For someone who argues as you do, the irony abounds. For, if one takes the time to assemble the basics of what you claim, one finds it replete with laws and rules, your rules, your laws, your way, or the highway.

    Come down from the mountain, Robert, and tarry with us imperfect saints. Your face is not shining bright enough just yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    I looked up the word heresy in the dictionary. Here is what it says.

    Heresy: "A belief contrary to the established doctrines of a church or religious system".

    I think that it should say, "Contrary to the teachings of the Bible".


    I know - that is why I mentioned. But what you think the bible teaches is only your opinion with no more authority than a Church. I do like your pov except when you accept the church blasphemies of our inherited sin from Adam as a necessary belief to explain the why of the proven fact that we all are sinners at conception or birth. It is not so necessary...
    I Champion GODís holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishrovmen View Post
    The problem with this is that the word "nomou" (translated "law") already has a definition, of which there is no similarity to ANY KNOWN definition of religion.
    In your mind, you equate law and religion as "basically the same thing" but that is a personal concept, not a defined, agreed on, widely accepted reality.
    So what you are doing is replacing a word that has an acceptable, agreeable definition with a personal concept, which is changing the text of what was written.
    Do you agree?

    Those that are religious live by law. They have a law based theology which makes them religious. The Pharisees said that the law was... "The way the truth and the life" John took what they said about the law and applied it to Jesus. Even though the dictionary has a different definition for these words they are still closely related when it comes to religion. Simply because the religious live by law. When one is doing their religion they are doing the law. Anything in the Bible that tells someone to do something or not to do something is law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ttruscott View Post


    I know - that is why I mentioned. But what you think the bible teaches is only your opinion with no more authority than a Church. I do like your pov except when you accept the church blasphemies of our inherited sin from Adam as a necessary belief to explain the why of the proven fact that we all are sinners at conception or birth. It is not so necessary...

    The Bible teaches that we are born sinners, Psalm 51:5. Also Romans 5:12. I like to go with what the Bible says.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    You are not making sound sense here at all, Robert.

    You belong to the church invisible of all the saints. To claim that that church has no laws, whether true or not, is to state a law that states there is no law. It is inescapable. The church militant was mandated from Scripture to assemble corporately and confess the truths from the sound patterns of Scripture.

    Robert, law is a system of rules that a particular community recognizes as regulating the actions of its members and may enforce by the imposition of penalties. To argue there is no law in Christianity is to argue chaos wherein we stand for nothing and believe in anything. This is manifest nonsense. We are commanded by Scripture to define what is in and what is out else we are but a rag tag band of wanderers seeking who knows what. The church militant is imperfect to be sure, for it is composed of imperfect saints.

    Paul wrote to Timothy that he should “follow the pattern of the sound words” (2 Tim. 1:13). Here pattern, ὑποτύπωσις, is “the form of sound words.” Every discipline has its own set of specialist words. The Apostle Paul does not simply say, “memorize the Old Testament.” These patterns include what was taught in 2 Thess. 2:15, “So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions [παράδοσις] that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.” Also 1 Cor. 11:2 “Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions [παράδοσις] even as I delivered them to you.” See also 2 Thess. 3:6; 1 Cor. 11:23-26; 15:1-4.

    If you want to argue the law (duty to God, duty to fellow man) delivered to Moses is abrogated, then do so. You have not. You cannot.

    A person claiming to be a member of Our Lord's Bride who believes one can do or believe whatever he or she desires without consequence (penalties), is a very confused person.

    For someone who argues as you do, the irony abounds. For, if one takes the time to assemble the basics of what you claim, one finds it replete with laws and rules, your rules, your laws, your way, or the highway.

    Come down from the mountain, Robert, and tarry with us imperfect saints. Your face is not shining bright enough just yet.

    AMR

    Christians are not under any laws, nor are they subject to laws. This probably sounds strange to you because you are religious. To live by the Holy Spirit is to live according to the Gospel. In the Gospel God sees me as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

    You are religious, religious people are in the business of trying to perfect their flesh through the works of the law. I am not interested in your law based, fleshy religion, because I am already perfect and complete "in Christ". I am Spirit led and not law led. You probably won't understand any of this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Including pateism!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Those that are religious live by law. They have a law based theology which makes them religious. The Pharisees said that the law was... "The way the truth and the life" John took what they said about the law and applied it to Jesus. Even though the dictionary has a different definition for these words they are still closely related when it comes to religion. Simply because the religious live by law. When one is doing their religion they are doing the law. Anything in the Bible that tells someone to do something or not to do something is law.
    But you can't interchange/exchange what YOU perceive to be synonymous words into someone elses letters and make a doctrine or even a statement about that.
    You are changing what the author intended. Paul could have easily included the word "threskias" in the text or he could have told us elsewhere that "threskias" and "nomou" are synonymous, but he didn't.
    Do you not see the danger in inter/exchanging what anyone "perceives" to be synonyms into someone elses texts to come up with a new/ unintended meaning?
    Do you not see how you have (by changing the meaning of the text) included yourself in your own definition of heretic (post #8)?
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishrovmen View Post
    Yes, but Paul did NOT use YOUR definition of religion. He used the word "threskeias" which has an agreeable, acceptable non-negotiable definition.
    Do you agree?
    Paul did use the word religion, Acts 26:5. Also Galatians 1:13,14. He used it to describe his life as a Pharisee and the Jews.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Christians are not under any laws, nor are they subject to laws. This probably sounds strange to you because you are religious. To live by the Holy Spirit is to live according to the Gospel. In the Gospel God sees me as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

    You are religious, religious people are in the business of trying to perfect their flesh through the works of the law. I am not interested in your law based, fleshy religion, because I am already perfect and complete "in Christ". I am Spirit led and not law led. You probably won't understand any of this.
    And the Spirit leads in accordance to what?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Paul did use the word religion, Acts 26:5. Also Galatians 1:13,14. He used it to describe his life as a Pharisee and the Jews.
    Did Paul speak English? Are we talking about the Apostle Paul who wrote the epistle to the Romans? Please read the post #79 again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishrovmen View Post
    But you can't interchange/exchange what YOU perceive to be synonymous words into someone elses letters and make a doctrine or even a statement about that.
    You are changing what the author intended. Paul could have easily included the word "threskias" in the text or he could have told us elsewhere that "threskias" and "nomou" are synonymous, but he didn't.
    Do you not see the danger in inter/exchanging what anyone "perceives" to be synonyms into someone elses texts to come up with a new/ unintended meaning?
    Do you not see how you have (by changing the meaning of the text) included yourself in your own definition of heretic (post #8)?
    Nevertheless, the words law and religion are related. Those that are religious have a law based theology, this is what makes them religious. You cannot separate the two words because they are related when it comes to religion. If you don't like being called religious stop living by law.

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