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Thread: Robert's Gospel According to the Apostle Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishrovmen View Post
    Robert, by what authority do you appeal to reword/substitute/redefine/alter etc. the revealed biblical text?
    You are doing EXACTLY as I said in my responses to your opening post.
    Not only do you take the liberty to do so, but you give no concrete, definitive definitions of the words you use; you extract individual English words, translated from one or more other languages out of the flow and context wherein they were given and treat them as some kind of concepts or ideas that can be interchanged/exchanged at will.
    I wonder what exactly it is that you believe the biblical text to be? sacred? divinely inspired?

    The scriptures are the inspired word of God, 2 Timothy 3:16.

    The Holy Spirit is the teacher and the interpreter of scriptures, John 16:13. This is your problem, you apparently are not indwelt with the Holy Spirit.

  2. #17
    Over 500 post club fishrovmen's Avatar
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    I guess what Robert was trying to say in his first post was that only he has the authority to rightly declare himself an heretic as he defines in post #8 and proves in post #7 by changing God's word.
    Omniscience limited
    Prophetic guesses
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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Ha ha...but now be nice...

    One day the Giver of these gifts will demand an account...did we persevere...follow the care instructions?

    Robert here simply rejects the owner’s manual...while many many others have edited it or even changed the gift itself...

    The manual, which is the Bible tells us how to be saved. Only a fool would reject it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishrovmen View Post
    Those that are heretics have chosen to change God's word to suit their own image.
    Those that are heretics have chosen to change God's word to suit their own image.
    Those that are heretics have chosen to change God's word to suit their own image.
    unbelievable blindness, just unbelievable.
    Robert, you HAVE to be playing games...seriously!

    Most people select a religion that glorifies their egos.

    A good example of this is how a lot of movie stars embrace the Church of Scientology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Ha ha...but now be nice...

    One day the Giver of these gifts will demand an account...did we persevere...follow the care instructions?

    Robert here simply rejects the owner’s manual...while many many others have edited it or even changed the gift itself...
    Read the opening post again and tell me where I have gone wrong?

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    TOL Subscriber musterion's Avatar
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    Persecution complex, Pate?

    A few months ago you said those of us who stand only on 1 Cor 15:3-4 and reject vicarious lawkeeping have believed a false gospel. You were very clear on that point, more than once.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Persecution complex, Pate?

    A few months ago you said those of us who stand only on 1 Cor 15:3-4 and reject vicarious lawkeeping have believed a false gospel. You were very clear on that point, more than once.
    1 Corinthians 15:3,4. is not the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. It is about the Gospel, but it is not the Gospel. There is no detail to it, it is only an outline of the Gospel.

    Here is a more accurate account of the Gospel according to the scriptures.

    "For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21.

    Can you see the difference? Here is another.

    "Therefore as by the offence of one (Adam) judgment came upon ALL MEN to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one (Christ) the free gift came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life" Romans 5:18.

    Do you see how we are brought into the Gospel by these scriptures?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    1 Corinthians 15:3,4. is not the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. It is about the Gospel, but it is not the Gospel. There is no detail to it, it is only an outline of the Gospel.

    Here is a more accurate account of the Gospel according to the scriptures.

    "For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21.

    Can you see the difference? Here is another.

    "Therefore as by the offence of one (Adam) judgment came upon ALL MEN to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one (Christ) the free gift came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life" Romans 5:18.

    Do you see how we are brought into the Gospel by these scriptures?
    Yep.

    In 1 Cor. 15, Paul is reminding them that he had delivered the gospel of Christ unto them; he does not really go into its various aspects.

    Because he is merely reminding them that he had delivered it unto them.

    Or rather, reminding them of why they haven't any business whatsoever, thrown off by the foolishness some within their midst were going on about against the hope of The Resurrection.

    He is clearly assuming they have much more info on the gospel of Christ than what he reminds them of in verses 3, 4.

    In fact, other passages in both the Corinthian Epistles - like the verse you cited from 2 Cor. 5:21 - reveal that that gospel that he had delivered unto them contained much more than "Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures, and rose again; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" 1 Cor. 15: 3,4.

    The verse you cited from 2 Cor. 5:21, Robert, is a bit more detailed in important specifics, and functions much, by way of it being more in detail, as various passages in Romans 3 - 5 do.

    Where is it laid out in 1 Corithians 15 that all have sinned or come short of the glory of God?

    It is not there.

    Where in that chapter is the expected penalty for that having come short of the glory of God?

    It is not there.

    Etc...

    While both Acts 17 and later, his two epistles to those at Thessalonica, reveal it had been Paul's pattern to (as he also later asserted to the Romans, in chapter one and chapter 15), to "FULLY preach the gospel of Christ."

    And THAT is not only NOT done by him in 1 Cor. 15, but other issues he addresses in that chapter and THROUGHOUT his two Epistles to them, reveal he had FULLY preached the gospel of Christ to them, what he writes to them consistently referencing various aspects of "the FULLNESS of the gospel" Rom. 15:29.

    1Cor. 15:3,4 are merely a reminder they were expected to allow to remind them to reflect on all the other aspects of the gospel of Christ that Paul had obviously FULLY preached unto them.

    Great, crystal clear op, Robert.

    Now back to what ever it is you and I disagree on, here and there, lol.

    Romans 15:6-8, in each - our stead.

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  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishrovmen View Post
    Just as an example, your re-definitions of "law" and "religion".
    How can anyone have a conversation with you when you redefine words and then apply your re-defined words to a text and try to draw out a teaching from that?
    You can't just make up a term, give it a label that is already in use, apply it in place of the existing word in a text and then expect people to understand what you are talking about?
    When you talk about "religion", are you referring to the biblical word(s) that are translated into English as "religion", or are you talking about dictionary definitions, or your own (at least two that I recall) made up definitions, or even a combination?
    Robert tends to carry his own lexicon about and assumes we all understand how he is using words. This would not be a problem if he actually used the terms as they have been used historically.

    For Robert, "religion" is basically a pejorative to describe whatever someone believes that he does not.

    That said, as his regular double-mindedness reveals, occasionally Robert even uses the word properly and admits to having a religion, as the word religion simply means a particular set of faith and worship.
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertPate View Post
    Christianity is a faith religion. We are called to believe things thatcannot be believed by unbelievers. They are things of the Spirit thatunbelievers do not have access to, 1 Corinthians 2:14. We spend a lot of timeon the forum trying to convince these people that are void of the Spirit thingsof the Spirit.
    Christianity is a religion.
    Robert professes to be a Christian.
    Hence, Robert practices a religion.

    Accordingly, Robert is religious, despite all his cavils about "religion," especially given that he fails to define how he is using the word and claiming warrant to create his own personal lexicon about what words actually have been traditionally understood to mean.

    Q.E.D.

    This is why Robert often finds himself at the receiving end of rancor. He fails to properly define his terms such that the reader can at least understand where he is coming from in all his redundant "articles."

    AMR
    Last edited by Ask Mr. Religion; November 24th, 2018 at 10:03 AM. Reason: grammar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Robert tends to carry his own lexicon about and assumes we all understand how he is using words. This would not be a problem if he actually used the terms as they have been used historically.

    For Robert, "religion" is basically a pejorative to describe whatever someone believes that he does not.

    That said, as is regular double-mindedness reveals, occasionally Robert even uses the word properly and admits to having a religion, as the word religion simply means a particular set of faith and worship.

    Christianity is a religion.
    Robert professes to be a Christian.
    Hence, Robert practices a religion.

    Accordingly, Robert is religious, despite all his cavils about "religion," especially given that he fails to define how he is using the word and claiming warrant to create his own personal lexicon about what words actually have been traditionally understood to mean.

    Q.E.D.

    This is why Robert often finds himself at the receiving end of rancor. He fails to properly define his terms such that the reader can at least understand where he is coming from in all his redundant "articles."

    AMR
    Because you have embraced the cult called Calvinism, I don't expect you to understand what I say, if you did I would be very concerned. Calvinism is so far outside of the Gospel and justification by faith that it is sometimes hard for me to understand why someone that seems to be intelligent would buy into it. I guess we all underestimate Satan's power to blind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    I have been wrongfully accused of teaching heresy. I do not teach heresy, I teach what the Bible says, I believe the same Gospel that the apostle Paul preached. I do not attend or support any religious denomination. Those that have accused me of teaching heresy were never able to support their claims with scripture. Just because someone calls you a devil, a wolf, a deceiver does not mean that it is so.

    Paul taught that we are justified by faith, Romans 5:1, apart from the works of the law, Romans 3:20. The law is any religious thing that one might do, there is nothing that we can do that will justify us, because we are justified by faith, which also means that we are justified by Christ.

    "To declare, I say, at this time HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS: that he might be just and the JUSTIFIER of him that believes in Jesus" Romans 3:26.

    There it is right before you. Jesus justifies the UNGODLY by faith alone.

    "But to him that does no works, but believes on him that JUSTIFIES THE UNGODLY, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

    This is the same thing that I believe. If you don't like it take it up with Paul. I am just telling you what Paul said. I believe Paul 100%, does that make me a deceiver, a wolf, a devil or whatever else you want to call me?

    Not only does Jesus justify us, Jesus also reconciles us to God the Father. Paul strongly taught this and so do I, it is part of the Gospel.

    "And all things are of God, who has reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ and has given unto us the ministry of reconciliation" 2 Corinthians 5:18.

    "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation" 2 Corinthians 5:19.


    This is what I teach and believe. Does this sound like heresy to you? After reading this do you still believe that I am a devil?

    Now, do you believe that God has reconciled us and the world unto himself by Jesus Christ? Did Jesus make us holy so that we could be reconciled unto God by our good works and our piety? The scripture plainly says that Jesus justifies "THE UNGODLY" If you don't see yourself as ungodly then you may not qualify to be reconciled to God.

    Jesus has come into the world as the last Adam or the new Adam to do for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. Can you fulfill every jot and tittle of God's Holy Law? Matthew 5:18. Can you atone for your sins and the sins of the whole world? 1 John 2:2. Of course you can't, because you are a sinner in need of a savior.

    Once again, I believe all that Paul wrote. It is not heresy, I am not a devil, nor am I a wolf or a deceiver. I believe God's word to be true.
    You teach that sinners Christ lived and died for, shed His Blood for are lost and condemned. So you deny Justification by Christ alone !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    You teach that sinners Christ lived and died for, shed His Blood for are lost and condemned. So you deny Justification by Christ alone !
    You are under the misconception that man is just a dumb robot and cannot make choices, yet you have chosen the cult called Calvinism. Your thinking is full of hypocrisy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The manual, which is the Bible tells us how to be saved.
    indeed it does but that is only part of it

    Only a fool would reject it.
    some reject it by claiming it has no instructions as to how to live once saved...you know, as if nothing is expected of us to enjoy, care for and maximize the gift we received

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Read the opening post again and tell me where I have gone wrong?
    Going half way is not going wrong...but it still aint getting you there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    1 Corinthians 15:3,4. is not the Gospel that justifies the ungodly,
    And yet Paul says that's what he preached to them, which they believed and by which they were saved. I'll believe Paul over you.

    Do you still claim that those who reject vicarious lawkeeping are not saved?
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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