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Thread: Are The Sons of God Angels or Men?

  1. #31
    Over 750 post club iamaberean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    In Gen 6:1-7, who is GOD holding accountable, Angels or men?


    Does it say that GOD regrets creating Angels or is it man?
    Several places here in this forum, I explained that there were two separate creations. In Gen 1 God and his angels, who had to make suggestions since they could not create, created man, male and female God created them. He then told them to go and replenish the earth.

    In Gen 2, LORD God (the Covenant God) with no input from the angels, created a man who he called Adam. Adam was placed in a garden and there God created domestic animals. Adam named all of these domestic animals.

    Then the LORD God took Adam out to find a help meet, but they did not find a suitable female mate. So LORD God put Adam to sleep and took one of his rids and made a woman, Eve.

    So, one has to understand that there were many people on the earth but Adam was the only Son of God. Later on Adam and Eve had children and that made them the children of God.
    Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

    Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
    Sons of God, children of Adam and Eve. Daughters of men, those females who were children of mankind that was created in Gen 1.

    For what ever reason, LORD God did not approve it.

    I couldn't find any scripture that says the angels are the sons of God, it isn't there.

    Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
    Rom_8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
    Php_2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
    1Jn_3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
    1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

  2. #32
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyc View Post
    Hiya

    Where is STP and Chickenman these days?
    This subject was one of the few instance where we agreed, but I can't remember what the madist angle was on this.
    Not sure....I think we have them on both sides of the fence on this one.

    STP and Chickenman both stop by periodically.

  3. #33
    Over 2500 post club andyc's Avatar
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    IAAB

    The first man (Adam) was made of the dust of the ground. The second man was spiritual.
    Adam was the first of all those who are of flesh. The entire human race.
    Delight yourself in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. . Psalms 37:4

  4. #34
    Over 2500 post club andyc's Avatar
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    The reason why this subject is difficult is because it involves a physical and spiritual hybrid. However, Jesus is both human and Spirit. That which was born of Mary was not from man, but the Holy Spirit. We can accept this, so it shouldn't be difficult to accept that there was once an unholy alliance between spiritual beings and human women. This union was condemned by God.
    Delight yourself in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. . Psalms 37:4

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to andyc For Your Post:

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  6. #35
    Over 750 post club iamaberean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyc View Post
    IAAB

    The first man (Adam) was made of the dust of the ground. The second man was spiritual.
    Adam was the first of all those who are of flesh. The entire human race.
    Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

    Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    Let us relate the difference between those two scriptures.

    Gen 1
    God created
    Gen 2
    God formed

    Gen 1
    God created male and female
    Gen 2
    God doesn't mention female until later on and when He did, she was made from the rib of Adam.

    The last and very important difference was this:
    Gen 2 He breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

    This is still required today if we are to have eternal life, it is called the Holy Ghost.
    Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

  7. #36
    Over 500 post club ttruscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Yes.
    The Bible never teaches that humans have a pre-conception existence, so the burden of proof is on you to prove that we existed before our conception.
    I find the scripture attesting to our pre-conception existence everywhere...and I will prove it to you that my interpretation is the correct one when you prove all your favourite doctrines that are rejected by other churches, faiths, etc are the true interpretations... Oh my, I forgot, we live by faith, not proof and what is proven is not of faith...you are not trying to trick me are you?

    Let's say 95 % of my interpretations are based upon a corresponding particular verse...the other 5% are based upon logical implications and necessities of the interpretation of other verses...such as, "GOD is light in whom is no darkness at all." means GOD cannot create evil since light by nature destroys evil and dark is created when a non-light object is placed before the light and casts a shadow by impeding the light.

    Some others might interpret this verse in such a way that their GOD can create evil and...so be it, but it is not proof I am wrong.
    I Champion GODís holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

  8. #37
    Over 500 post club ttruscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyc View Post
    Sons of God are angels. No doubt about that. The Nephilim are the offspring of angel human relations who became demons after the flood.
    Adam was a son of GOD...does this mean he was an angel before he was sown by the breath of GOD into his body of dust as per Mat 13:38-39? This would also imply that sons of GOD can take many forms from spirits working for HIM to men on earth proving the phrase has nothing to do with racial or specie characteristics but only to their relationship with HIM as in HIS family, ie, elect.
    I Champion GODís holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

  9. #38
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    The Bible never teaches that humans have a pre-conception existence, so the burden of proof is on you to prove that we existed before our conception.
    Quote Originally Posted by ttruscott View Post
    I will prove it to you that my interpretation is the correct one when you prove all your favourite doctrines that are rejected by other churches, faiths, etc are the true interpretations
    If there are no passages in the Bible that clearly teach that humans have a pre-conception existence, you are talking about a doctrine of men.
    It does not matter whether any particular church, faith, denomination, etc. teach that doctrine, it only matters whether it is a clear teaching of the Bible.
    Quote Originally Posted by ttruscott View Post
    Let's say 95 % of my interpretations are based upon a corresponding particular verse...the other 5% are based upon logical implications and necessities of the interpretation of other verses...such as, "GOD is light in whom is no darkness at all." means GOD cannot create evil since light by nature destroys evil and dark is created when a non-light object is placed before the light and casts a shadow by impeding the light.

    Some others might interpret this verse in such a way that their GOD can create evil and...so be it, but it is not proof I am wrong.
    That example looks like your doctrines are based on 5% verses and 95% inference based on what you assume are the logical implications.
    The problem is that there are other verses in the Bible that clearly and directly contradict your stated interpretation, like this one:

    Isaiah 45:7
    7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.


    You claim that God cannot create evil, but God Himself declares that He does create evil.
    Should I believe your doctrine based on inference of a verse that is a bit vague or should I believe God Himself in a very clear verse that contradicts your doctrine?

    The words of God in Isaiah 45:7 is proof that your doctrine is wrong.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

  10. #39
    Over 500 post club ttruscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    If there are no passages in the Bible that clearly teach that humans have a pre-conception existence, you are talking about a doctrine of men.
    Indeed. But what does clearly mean - that it is right in your opinion? If you asked anyone who was not a Christian with no theological bone to pick what was meant in Jer 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you..." they would say, Clearly person I knew the person he was talking to, You, before that person You was conceived in the womb..." but a theological bias against such an idea makes such this clear and straightforward interpretation wrong wrong wrong so it must mean something else entirely. This is often what happens to the clear meaning of scripture when it runs afoul of theology...

    It does not matter whether any particular church, faith, denomination, etc. teach that doctrine, it only matters whether it is a clear teaching of the Bible.
    And you of course are the arbiter of what is and is not a clear teaching of the bible according to your favourite theological system, eh?

    I don't think so...

    That example looks like your doctrines are based on 5% verses and 95% inference based on what you assume are the logical implications.
    The problem is that there are other verses in the Bible that clearly and directly contradict your stated interpretation, like this one:

    Isaiah 45:7
    7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.


    You claim that God cannot create evil, but God Himself declares that He does create evil.
    Should I believe your doctrine based on inference of a verse that is a bit vague or should I believe God Himself in a very clear verse that contradicts your doctrine? The words of God in Isaiah 45:7 is proof that your doctrine is wrong.
    Here's where we are different... I accept that ra`, evil in this verse can be rendered by the English world 'evil.' But I also know that it can also be rendered as: unpleasant, disagreeable, sad, unhappy, misery, distress etc, etc or calamity, disaster or adversity!!

    So I am not forced by this verse to believe GOD creates evil when it is just as clear that it can follow my thesis that GOD cannot create evil by knowing that this verse means that HE creates
    calamity, disaster and adversity. I don't have to cheat the language to force a theological point...
    I Champion GODís holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

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