User Tag List

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 19 of 19

Thread: Was Cain the first born child by Adam and Eve?

  1. #16
    Rookie
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    16
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by tieman55 View Post
    Was Cain the first child bore by Adam and Eve?


    I highly doubt it.

    I checked every Gen. 4 translation I could find and I did not find any translation that says Cain was the first born child, always it is the first-born son.

    The Bible often only records male births not female. If female children were born prior to Cain it would not be at all uncommon not to note their births. Gen. 5:4 We know that Eve had many sons and daughters. So, could a daughter have been born first?

    With just the two observations above, it can not be assumed, as most do, that Cain was the first child born.

    Is it discover able or discernible from the Bible and elsewhere what gender was born first, since it doesn't say? I think so.

    First, there are biological reasons as to why there are more women on earth. I copied and pasted the below from miriamstoppard.com and I believe is true.

    Is this true? "You are more likely to have a boy if you have sex only once during your fertile period and a girl if you have sex more often.
    Answer: True
    This is based on the fact that female sperm live longer and swim slower than male sperm. If you have sex a few days before you ovulate the longer living and slower female sperm will be waiting for the egg. If you have sex just before ovulation the faster pushier male sperm will win the race. Whatever you do remember that really there is a 50:50 chance of having either a boy or a girl. Focusing on having a healthy baby is more important than its gender."


    I added the bold print pointing out the main fact that is to observed. I could not find any good studies on that "fact" but I have read it in a few places, and I believe it to be true. I mostly believe it because, it worked for my family. I had two girls and was not leaving this planet with out a son and bingo, I followed the "facts" above and now I have a son! But unlike Eve who thanked the Lord, I thanked the internet.

    Gen. 4:1 The biblical text has two items that seem out of place to me.

    1. Eve's interaction with the Lord and 2. he was “bore Cain”


    The perfect women, Eve, thanked and or praised and or acknowledge the Lord for providing her with a son. The Amplified Bible says “with help from the Lord”. She conceived. Why would Eve the perfect women who was having sex with the perfect man need help from the Lord to conceive? And in this case she thanked the Lord for a son, not for a daughter, so her problem may have been only conceiving a son.

    There is no record that she thanked the Lord for a daughter. She didn't thank Him for Abel, but she thanked Him for a son who grew up to be the first murderer. Or, maybe she thanked the Lord for the knowledge on how to have a son and not the son Cain.

    CEV Bible puts it like this, “Adam and Eve had a son. Then Eve said, “I’ll name him Cain because I got him with the help of the Lord. Granted I cherry picked this verse as it makes my point perfectly, but there are several other translation in the exact same vein. CEV states as clear as can be that the noun cain is related to the conception.

    The NKJV says "she acquired a man form the lord" some translations say "gained" a son from the Lord. What ever God was trying to get across to us, it seems clear that Eve was thankful to the Lord that she conceived a son, not a daughter.


    My view of what God was trying to get across to us is . . .
    Eve was having problems conceiving a son. Eve prayed, got instructions “help” from the Lord on just how to conceive a son and she bore Cain.

    The NKJV says “and she conceived and bore Cain.” Interesting phrasing. Very different than saying in the next sentence. “Then she bore again, this time his brother Abel.”

    With Abel, there is no mention of conception and he was not bore Abel. . . she bore again, this time his brother Abel.


    For me the simplest answer to all of these questions is: Eve had many daughters perhaps 12 of them. She was becoming jealous of her daughters who had no men and her daughters were becoming more beautiful while she was aging.

    Without some men and soon, she would not be able to keep her husband to herself.

    Eve's curse . . . “your desire will be for your husband” would have rung in her ears as there were no men for her daughters, only her husband. And in desperation she prayed.

    The Lord heard her prayer and told her how to conceive a male child and that is why the passage notes “conceived”. Then just maybe LOL her 13th conception was Cain.

    The phrase “bore cain” , this is the only time a phrase like this is used in the Bible (as far as I can tell) Perhaps, cain did not start out as a proper noun. Perhaps, cain was the method of having a boy child. Something like below.

    Eve is praying and the Lord responds,Eve to gain a son, you must wait a cain-night after your cycle is complete, Adam's seed must rest as your body prepares for a son. A fort-night before your next cycle is to start, have relations with your husband, and you shall conceive a son. Each time you wish to gain a son do this.

    I have seen Cain's name in Hebrew letters v numbers, refereed to or used in connection to the number 16, it is thin but there. It fits. Fortnight is two weeks, a cain-night is 16 days, making a full monthly cycle. Yes, today the average woman's cycle is 28 days, but they are not perfect like Eve was. And the fort-night is not important in the equation, only the 16 days is. 16 days into the menstrual cycle , is the most likely day to conceive a male child.

    A short aside on the name Cain, that name in the Bible is used to me in odd places and spelled various ways. Perhaps there is an unknown etymology. Perhaps it shouldn't be capitalized in Gen.4. Perhaps it shouldn't be capitalized until the first-born male was named Cain, Cain being named after the process that bore him.

    Since there was no TV back then, Adam and Eve would have had girl after girl. Perhaps thinking that the sex of their offspring was either random or perhaps determined by God.

    So by the time the Lord told Eve how to conceive a son, there were plenty of sisters to provide for the lustful teenage boys that would be coming along. This to me is the most conceiving argument that Cain was not the first child. Cain would have been more likely to have killed Adam rather than Abel, just to get to Eve.

    Also, we know that Cain killed his brother, over an offering not a sister.
    Having been a young man, it seems far far more likely to have a fight over a women then anything! This is more indication that there were sisters available to them to marry, perhaps a few to choose from.


    Yes, the above is mostly all conjecture but it makes for a good story and it is all possible according to what we know from the Bible, In my book “Killing Abel” this scenario makes for a compelling read as Eve struggles to provide some male children for her beautiful daughters so they would not endanger her marriage.
    considering they were probably in the the Garden of Eden no more than 7-8 days, How could they have other Children prior to Cain.. God does not tell us that EVE conceived in the Garden as He does in Gen 4:1

    Blade

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Bladerunner For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (November 23rd, 2018)

  3. #17
    Over 750 post club iamaberean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    891
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked 73 Times in 66 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    52297
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Absent evidence to the contrary, which is not in evidence, it is proper to assume that all of Adam's progeny were the result of the union between he and Eve.

    To assume Adam set aside Eve for another would set the genealogies in Scripture akilter.

    AMR

    Below is the adult story about the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    The tree's in the garden were the different people that lived in the garden. The serpent happened to be a person from the nation of the tree of good and evil.
    (Read Eze 31)

    Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

    beguiled
    nâshâ'
    naw-shaw'
    A primitive root; to lead astray, that is, (mentally) to delude, or (morally) to seduce: - beguile, deceive, X greatly, X utterly.
    Replace the word 'have intercourse' for the word 'eat'.

    Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    zeh'-rah
    From H2232; seed; figuratively fruit, plant, sowing time, posterity: - X carnally, child, fruitful, seed (-time), sowing-time.

  4. #18
    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    On the road
    Posts
    7,773
    Thanks
    25,102
    Thanked 7,040 Times in 4,438 Posts

    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147607
    Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post

    Below is the adult story about the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    The tree's in the garden were the different people that lived in the garden. The serpent happened to be a person from the nation of the tree of good and evil.
    (Read Eze 31)

    Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

    beguiled
    nâshâ'
    naw-shaw'
    A primitive root; to lead astray, that is, (mentally) to delude, or (morally) to seduce: - beguile, deceive, X greatly, X utterly.

    Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    zeh'-rah
    From H2232; seed; figuratively fruit, plant, sowing time, posterity: - X carnally, child, fruitful, seed (-time), sowing-time.


    You should change your name to "iamaFool."

  5. #19
    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Taipei, Taiwan
    Posts
    17,450
    Thanks
    335
    Thanked 10,743 Times in 7,819 Posts

    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147828
    Quote Originally Posted by tieman55 View Post
    Female sperm live longer and swim slower than male sperm.

    The widely held idea that spermatozoa bearing the Y chromosome (Y sperm) swim faster than those bearing the X chromosome (X sperm) seems to have originated from Shettles's work in 1960, using phase-contrast microscopy. He claimed to have observed “two distinct populations” of spermatozoa. After attempting to count the chromosomes, he concluded that the smaller heads contain the Y and the larger the X chromosome. There were no intermediate types. The following year he reiterated these findings, adding that smaller headed spermatozoa can migrate more rapidly and fertilise the egg more often in the distal part of the tube.
    Reading Shettles's reports in Nature and other peer reviewed journals, many researchers thereafter believed that Y sperm swim faster than X sperm. The finding particularly influenced research on sperm separation.
    Although several attempts have been made to correct this impression, it was not until the development of computer assisted sperm analysis (CASA) that reliable observations could be made. So far, researchers have found no morphological differences between human X sperm and Y sperm. Neither mature sperm nor their precursors possess significant morphological differences between X and Y genotypes; and Y bull sperm do not swim faster than X sperm.


    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1440662/

    Also, it's kinda silly to refer to sperm as being gendered.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us