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Thread: ST. JOHN 11:26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Interesting thoughts. I can't remember a second resurrection, but I do have thoughts about a second death. I believe that a person cannto come back from a second death, though I am not exactly sure why I believe that.
    Rev 20 talks of the "first" resurrection:
    [Rev 20:4 KJV] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    [Rev 20:5 KJV] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.

    The need to designate something as "first" would suggest at least one more to come, and a second is also mentioned in Rev 20:5, in the first sentence: "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished."

    It is described in detail in Rev 20:12-13:
    [Rev 20:12 KJV] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    [Rev 20:13 KJV] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    These are called "the dead", which is an interesting phrase, if they experienced a "resurrection". But I don't think anything else fits the idea of a second "resurrection".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Interesting thoughts. I can't remember a second resurrection, but I do have thoughts about a second death. I believe that a person cannto come back from a second death, though I am not exactly sure why I believe that.
    On your second point--whether a person can come back from a second death--I expect those that Elijah, Elisha, Jesus, Peter, and Paul raised from the dead experienced a second death but will also experience a second resurrection.

    But I don't think that counts as THE second death mentioned in Rev 20. That second death is described as something that sounds less like "death" and more like "torment without end". But it's participants are the ones that aren't found in the book of life, so it does seem like those who are resurrected can die a second time, just not in the same way.

    And I agree that I don't see any hint of a recovery/resurrection from that second death.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisgood View Post
    It means that all who reject Jesus Christ and His perfect, atoning, vicarious, sacrificial, completed/finished work on the Cross of Calvary, will die exactly as Adam did (lost). There is no mention in the Bible anywhere that Adam died saved. Adam is not mentioned in Hebrews 11. It means that all who are in Adam reject God. That simple.



    It means that all who accept Jesus Christ and His perfect, atoning, vicarious, sacrificial, completed/finished work on the Cross of Calvary, will live forever because all believers are in Christ, sealed by the Holy Spirit for we are His temple (1 Cor. 6:19).
    I do not know everything about Adam in the Bible. But now, what do you think about the resurrection of the righteous and the wicked the just and the unjust and being judged after death or not if you are a believer? What can we say or know is true? What can we say or know to be true? For example, is there a resurrection of the righteous a first resurrection and a general resurrection in the future perhaps? How is it that the wicked will be resurrected and what does it mean?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derf View Post
    Rev 20 talks of the "first" resurrection:
    [Rev 20:4 KJV] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    [Rev 20:5 KJV] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.

    The need to designate something as "first" would suggest at least one more to come, and a second is also mentioned in Rev 20:5, in the first sentence: "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished."

    It is described in detail in Rev 20:12-13:
    [Rev 20:12 KJV] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    [Rev 20:13 KJV] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    These are called "the dead", which is an interesting phrase, if they experienced a "resurrection". But I don't think anything else fits the idea of a second "resurrection".
    So this 'second' resurrection is a thousand years after the first resurrection. Are they believers 'both times'? Etc....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derf View Post
    On your second point--whether a person can come back from a second death--I expect those that Elijah, Elisha, Jesus, Peter, and Paul raised from the dead experienced a second death but will also experience a second resurrection.

    But I don't think that counts as THE second death mentioned in Rev 20. That second death is described as something that sounds less like "death" and more like "torment without end". But it's participants are the ones that aren't found in the book of life, so it does seem like those who are resurrected can die a second time, just not in the same way.

    And I agree that I don't see any hint of a recovery/resurrection from that second death.
    Now you have me thinking! For of Jesus it is said that He will never die again. And presumably Lazarus could would or did. However, I do not know well enough in this. I don't know for certain about those you are speaking of, what you are saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I do not know everything about Adam in the Bible. But now, what do you think about the resurrection of the righteous and the wicked the just and the unjust and being judged after death or not if you are a believer? What can we say or know is true? What can we say or know to be true? For example, is there a resurrection of the righteous a first resurrection and a general resurrection in the future perhaps? How is it that the wicked will be resurrected and what does it mean?
    First resurrection is for believers found in Christ and will be with God forever.
    Second resurrection is for those not found in Christ and will be away from God forever.
    No man can come to God except through Christ. (Jn. 14:20)
    No man can come to Christ unless he comes through the Cross. (Jn. 3:16; Eph. 2:1318)
    No man can come to the Cross without a denial of self. (Lk. 9:2324)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Interesting thoughts. I can't remember a second resurrection, but I do have thoughts about a second death. I believe that a person cannto come back from a second death, though I am not exactly sure why I believe that.
    The second resurrection is not explicitly stated as "the second resurrection" but strongly implied because "the first resurrection" is explicitly stated, followed by a description of another greater resurrection.

    Revelation 20:5-6 KJV
    (5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    (6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisgood View Post
    First resurrection is for believers found in Christ and will be with God forever.
    Second resurrection is for those not found in Christ and will be away from God forever.
    Why do you say this? What is your evidence for this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    The second resurrection is not explicitly stated as "the second resurrection" but strongly implied because "the first resurrection" is explicitly stated, followed by a description of another greater resurrection.

    Revelation 20:5-6 KJV
    (5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    (6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
    What do you mean by

    followed by a description of another greater resurrection.

    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    So this 'second' resurrection is a thousand years after the first resurrection. Are they believers 'both times'? Etc....
    I don't see all as believers in the second resurrection. But all are believers in the first. The first might also be constrained to those believers who have obviously proved their devotion to Christ, by submitting to severe persecution.

    There appear to be believers who come out of the second resurrection, because only "all who are not found written in the book of life" are cast into the lake of fire. So a judgment is actually taking place based on something. I'm thinking that "something" is whether they are willing to submit to Christ as Lord at that time, but it might be something else from during their lives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisgood View Post
    First resurrection is for believers found in Christ and will be with God forever.
    Second resurrection is for those not found in Christ and will be away from God forever.
    Rev 20 suggests some will be found written in the book of life, since all are not cast into the lake of fire.
    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. [Rev 20:15 KJV]

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    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisgood View Post
    First resurrection is for believers found in Christ and will be with God forever.
    Second resurrection is for those not found in Christ and will be away from God forever.
    A minor correction: the second resurrection is for those who were not not found in Christ and who will stand before him in that judgment... but they will still receive judgment. The results of that judgment are not a foregone conclusion.

    If you look at the description of Revelation 20 it shows that some pass into life and others into fire. This is also consistent with Christ's parable of the sheep and the goats, where some of that judgment pass into life and others into death.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    What do you mean by

    followed by a description of another greater resurrection.

    ?
    "The rest of the dead" are among the greater resurrection. The first resurrection is "lesser" in numbers being composed only of the saints of God and Christ, the second resurrection is "greater" in numbers composed of all who have ever lived, child, man, woman, slave, and king. Since we are told the "first" resurrection is of the saints, by deduction any mention of a resurrection of non-saints must be the second resurrection.

    Isaiah 26:19-21, 27:1 KJV
    (19) Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
    (20) Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
    (21) For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
    (1) In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

    Daniel 12:2 KJV
    (2) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

    Acts 24:15 KJV
    (15) And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

    Revelation 20:5-6 KJV
    (5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    (6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    Revelation 20:12-13 KJV
    (12) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    (13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    Isaiah 14:9-10 KJV
    (9) Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
    (10) All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

    Those references (above) seem likely to be reference to the second resurrection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    A minor correction: the second resurrection is for those who were not not found in Christ and who will stand before him in that judgment... but they will still receive judgment. The results of that judgment are not a foregone conclusion.

    If you look at the description of Revelation 20 it shows that some pass into life and others into fire. This is also consistent with Christ's parable of the sheep and the goats, where some of that judgment pass into life and others into death.
    All found in Christ (Believers) will also receive judgement albeit not for salvation at the Judgment Seat of Christ / Bema Seat of Christ.

    Romans 14:10–12 says, “For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. . . . So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God”

    Second Corinthians 5:10 tells us, “We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.”

    Unbelievers will be judged for salvation at the great white throne.
    (Revelation 20:11-15 Revelation 20:7-15 Revelation 20:7-10 Revelation 20:12 Psalm 28:4; 62:12; Romans 2:6; Revelation 2:23; 18:6; 22:12
    No man can come to God except through Christ. (Jn. 14:20)
    No man can come to Christ unless he comes through the Cross. (Jn. 3:16; Eph. 2:1318)
    No man can come to the Cross without a denial of self. (Lk. 9:2324)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derf View Post
    Rev 20 suggests some will be found written in the book of life, since all are not cast into the lake of fire.
    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. [Rev 20:15 KJV]
    Not talking about believers now, but talking about believers from the tribulation, the great (as the Greek has it)
    No man can come to God except through Christ. (Jn. 14:20)
    No man can come to Christ unless he comes through the Cross. (Jn. 3:16; Eph. 2:1318)
    No man can come to the Cross without a denial of self. (Lk. 9:2324)

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