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Thread: The Whore of Babylon & The Mark of the Beast Revealed

  1. #31
    LIFETIME MEMBER steko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    This is EXACTLY why the Word of Truth must be rightly divided.

    There are no special days for the body of Christ,.... BUT for the children of Israel there is a PERPETUAL weekly Sabbath.

    Exod 31:12-18 (AKJV/PCE)
    (31:12) ¶ And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, (31:13) Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that [ye] may know that I [am] the LORD that doth sanctify you. (31:14) Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it [is] holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth [any] work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. (31:15) Six days may work be done; but in the seventh [is] the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth [any] work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. (31:16) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant. (31:17) It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. (31:18) ¶ And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

    Those two things are completely contradictory. (no special days and a perpetual weekly Sabbath).
    Bingo!

    Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

    Eze 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shubee View Post
    Why couldn't God create a shadow during creation week and have that shadow continue to exist and still represent something yet to come?
    It's not about what God "could" or "could not" do. It's about what He did do. The Seventh Day Sabbath is a memorial of creation, not something that is a shadow of the crucifixion. This is seen every time you read from the 10 Commandments that God wrote with His own finger, and spake with His own mouth, straight to all of Israel. God related the 7th Day Sabbath to what happened before sin existed on this planet, when He created things. This sign we keep to acknowledge Him as Creator. We of course see the same type of ideas throughout scripture, for example growing food for 6 years, and the 7th year allowing the ground to lay fallow, 6000 years of sin (about, not exact), and then 1000 years of the earth laying fallow with no more sinners alive on it. None of these make the 7th Day Sabbath a shadow, if anything they point to just how much God cares about the six working days, and resting on the 7th day, because He points backwards to that example from creation week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    You should direct your questions specifically.



    The seventh day sabbath is a shadow of things to come specifically of His coming and His kingdom. More on this if you like.



    Man gets their six days (roughly six thousand years) but the seventh day (and millennial reign) is reserved for the LORD.



    I would say that the Ten Commandments were part and parcel of the Law of Moses. Did you mean, "If you deny that, please explain why they are the same?"



    This is an example why you should direct your questions specifically. I don't have a mock-Sabbath on any day. I esteem every day alike.

    Romans 14:4-6 KJV
    (4) Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
    (5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
    (6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.




    Colossians 2:16-17 KJV
    (16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
    (17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

    Those that observed the seventh day Sabbath (and the other Sabbaths) under the Law of Moses did acknowledge God as their creator, but those that acknowledge Jesus as their LORD and their God also acknowledge God as their creator.



    "This isn't the only world?" Are you basing that off of Hebrews 1:2 and 11:3? There was the world before the flood, there was the world after the flood, and there is the world to come. Or you could say that means the world of men and the world of angels. I wouldn't say there was enough to say "multiple worlds" like alien civilizations on other planets.



    God has the right to change laws and customs as he wills, such as the prohibition against eating flesh (before the flood) or certain meats (such as for the nation of Israel while it remained a people.) I welcome whatever sabbaths that the Lord institutes in his Kingdom, no matter what in what day of the week or frequency they may be declared. but for this present time those sabbaths (weekly or annually) are not instituted for his people.
    Have you ever stopped to think why God placed the 7th Day Sabbath in the 10 Commandments, where are other irrevocable commandments, and not classed with the Levitical Sabbaths of Leviticus 23? Does God do anything arbitrarily? Are not His ways higher than our ways? God does not change the moral law, it is as perfect as He is.

    Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

    Every single one of the 10 Commandments is eternal, from not murdering, to not stealing, to not committing adultery. You are morally obligated to have God supreme in your life. You are morally obligated not to make any idols, and worship them. You are morally obligated not to take God's name in vain, whether it be spiritually speaking, or literally via using His name vainly in speech.

    The 7th Day Sabbath is also a moral, eternal law. You are morally obligated to keep the sign of the covenant between you and God, acknowledging Him as your Creator. Different relationships have different moral obligations. With a friend, one thing, with a spouse another, and with God, another. Your moral obligation to keep the sign of God's covenant is not revoked by either Romans 14, or Colossians 2.

    I chose to answer everything in one short answer. I saw people talking about the same subject, so no use quoting everyone again and again, repeating the same stuff again, and again.

  5. #34
    Over 1000 post club Idolater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheThirdAngel144 View Post
    The 7th Day Sabbath is also a moral, eternal law. You are morally obligated to keep the sign of the covenant between you and God, acknowledging Him as your Creator. Different relationships have different moral obligations. With a friend, one thing, with a spouse another, and with God, another. Your moral obligation to keep the sign of God's covenant is not revoked by either Romans 14, or Colossians 2.
    God dedicated a new covenant to acknowledge Him as our Creator. The sign of the new covenant is not in sabbath keeping, but in Mass, celebrating the Eucharist, the Lord's table. Celebrated every Sunday, not in remembrance of the creation, but of His Son's resurrection from the dead.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

  6. #35
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    God dedicated a new covenant to acknowledge Him as our Creator. The sign of the new covenant is not in sabbath keeping, but in Mass, celebrating the Eucharist, the Lord's table. Celebrated every Sunday, not in remembrance of the creation, but of His Son's resurrection from the dead.
    That is religion and NOT Bible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Over 1000 post club Idolater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    That is religion and NOT Bible.
    You don't think that Communion is in the Bible?
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Over 4000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheThirdAngel144 View Post
    It's not about what God "could" or "could not" do. It's about what He did do. The Seventh Day Sabbath is a memorial of creation, not something that is a shadow of the crucifixion.
    How did you jump to a conclusion that the Sabbath was (interpreted by anyone) as a shadow of the crucifixion? The Passover was the shadow of the crucifixion, not any of the sabbaths.

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    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    You don't think that Communion is in the Bible?
    This is called moving the goalposts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    God dedicated a new covenant to acknowledge Him as our Creator. The sign of the new covenant is not in sabbath keeping, but in Mass, celebrating the Eucharist, the Lord's table. Celebrated every Sunday, not in remembrance of the creation, but of His Son's resurrection from the dead.
    That is religion and NOT Bible.
    RD was talking about your claim that A) God dedicated a new covenenant B) to acknowledge Him as our Creator, C) that the sign of the new covenant is not in Sabbath keeping, D) but in Mass/Eucharist/the Lord's Table, E) Celebrating every Sunday.

    That's called religion.

    Or, as Christ calls it... Vain repetition.

    And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. - Matthew 6:7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...7&version=NKJV

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  12. #39
    Over 4000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheThirdAngel144 View Post
    Have you ever stopped to think why God placed the 7th Day Sabbath in the 10 Commandments, where are other irrevocable commandments, and not classed with the Levitical Sabbaths of Leviticus 23? Does God do anything arbitrarily? Are not His ways higher than our ways? God does not change the moral law, it is as perfect as He is.
    Are the "Ten Commandments" really irrevocable commandments? The scripture shows us that those Ten Commandments are either revocable or subservient to a higher law.

    Example one: "Thou shalt not kill" vs. "Thou shalt kill"

    Exodus 20:13 KJV
    (13) Thou shalt not kill.

    1 Samuel 15:33 KJV
    (33) And Samuel said, As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the LORD in Gilgal.

    Example Two: "Thou shalt not make any graven image" vs. "Thou shalt make a graven image"

    Exodus 20:4 KJV
    (4) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

    Numbers 21:8-9 KJV
    (8) And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
    (9) And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

    There you have at least two cases demonstrating that there was law that superseded those specific commandments. They were not "eternal" or "immutable" ... even though the law they reflect and were based on is eternal and immutable.

    Every single one of the 10 Commandments is eternal, from not murdering, to not stealing, to not committing adultery. You are morally obligated to have God supreme in your life. You are morally obligated not to make any idols, and worship them. You are morally obligated not to take God's name in vain, whether it be spiritually speaking, or literally via using His name vainly in speech.
    If the "Ten Commandments" were eternal, then why do they lack establishment before Moses?" And why would they be declared only to Israel? Scripture also has an answer here. The "Ten Commandments" are not an eternal law, they are a based upon (and a reflection) of the fulfillment of that law, namely "Love God" and "Love thy Neighbor."

    Thus, when God commanded that someone must be killed, "Love God" meant that we must first obey God and took precedence even over the commandment which had been specifically given to them. When God declared "make thee an image of a serpent" again "Love God" overrules the commandment forbidding the making of graven images.

    The 7th Day Sabbath is also a moral, eternal law. You are morally obligated to keep the sign of the covenant between you and God, acknowledging Him as your Creator.
    The seventh day Sabbath (and all of the sabbaths) are part of a covenant made with Israel which was brought out of Egypt, and their children. I was never a party to that covenant, nor would I be eligible to participate in the promises of that covenant (such as inheriting the land of Canaan.)

    Does the seventh day sabbath reflect a higher law? It reflects "love God" as in that we would do whatever God asks of us. The objective of the law is to remember the LORD, not the service of the day itself. The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. Oxen may still be rescued from ditches, and the priests may profane the sabbath in service of the temple or the LORD of the Sabbath.

    Example Three:

    Matthew 12:5-8 KJV
    (5) Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
    (6) But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
    (7) But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
    (8) For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

    There you have a third instance where the commandment of the LORD replaces one of those ten commandments. Commandments 3, 4, and 6 are not eternal and immutable; they are still subject to God to suspend or redefine as He pleases.

    Different relationships have different moral obligations. With a friend, one thing, with a spouse another, and with God, another. Your moral obligation to keep the sign of God's covenant is not revoked by either Romans 14, or Colossians 2.
    Do you discount Romans 14 and Colossians 2 specifically? Or do you disregard the New Testament as being applicable or inspired? You haven't explained your reasoning.

    I chose to answer everything in one short answer. I saw people talking about the same subject, so no use quoting everyone again and again, repeating the same stuff again, and again.
    Would you consider the questions I brought forth here? And one more question:

    If God were to give you a new commandment (or commandments) would you be willing to obey that commandment (or commandments?) Why or why not? Thanks.

  13. #40
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    You don't think that Communion is in the Bible?
    The the one that your religion loves so much.

    The word is used a total of ONE TIME and only by the apostle Paul.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  14. #41
    Over 1000 post club Idolater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    This is called moving the goalposts.
    OK I'm game. Let's see.
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    RD was talking about your claim that A) God dedicated a new covenenant
    He did.
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    B) to acknowledge Him as our Creator
    Hold on. I was using the same words as TheThirdAngel144 did, to address their post directly, "You are morally obligated to keep the sign of the covenant (the Sabbath) between you and God, acknowledging Him as your Creator." I just granted that Sabbath keeping was 'the sign of the covenant...acknowledging [God] as [our] Creator,' without contest, because it isn't material to my response. The fact is that God (our Creator) has dedicated a new covenant between Him and His people.
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    , C) that the sign of the new covenant is not in Sabbath keeping, D) but in Mass/Eucharist/the Lord's Table, E) Celebrating every Sunday.
    In contrast to TheThirdAngel144's claim that Sabbath-keeping is the modern 'sign' of God's people. Those acknowledging the new covenant are known for Mass, not for Sabbath-keeping.
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    That's called religion.
    RD distinguished 'religion' from what's in the Bible, and Communion is in the Bible.
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Or, as Christ calls it... Vain repetition.

    And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. - Matthew 6:7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...7&version=NKJV
    Mass is a prayer, that's true. But 'vain?' That would require that Communion wasn't to be regularly celebrated. Again in the context of the post I was addressing, where the Sabbath is once a week, so Mass is once a week also.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Over 1000 post club Idolater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    The the one that your religion loves so much.

    The word is used a total of ONE TIME and only by the apostle Paul.
    Oh. Well, if it was only Paul then....
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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  17. #43
    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Are the "Ten Commandments" really irrevocable commandments? The scripture shows us that those Ten Commandments are either revocable or subservient to a higher law.

    Example one: "Thou shalt not kill" vs. "Thou shalt kill"

    Exodus 20:13 KJV
    (13) Thou shalt not kill.

    1 Samuel 15:33 KJV
    (33) And Samuel said, As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the LORD in Gilgal.
    The correct word is "murder," not "kill."

    This is a COMMON mistake.

    God is not the hypocrite that you make Him out to be.

    Example Two: "Thou shalt not make any graven image" vs. "Thou shalt make a graven image"

    Exodus 20:4 KJV
    (4) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

    Numbers 21:8-9 KJV
    (8) And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
    (9) And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
    You can make any argument you want from the Bible when you take things out of context.

    “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. - Exodus 20:4-6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...6&version=NKJV

    God is not the hypocrite you make Him out to be.

    There you have at least two cases demonstrating that
    ... you have no idea what you're talking about.

    there was law that superseded those specific commandments. They were not "eternal" or "immutable" ... even though the law they reflect and were based on is eternal and immutable.

    If the "Ten Commandments" were eternal, then why do they lack establishment before Moses?" And why would they be declared only to Israel? Scripture also has an answer here. The "Ten Commandments" are not an eternal law, they are a based upon (and a reflection) of the fulfillment of that law, namely "Love God" and "Love thy Neighbor."

    Thus, when God commanded that someone must be killed, "Love God" meant that we must first obey God and took precedence even over the commandment which had been specifically given to them. When God declared "make thee an image of a serpent" again "Love God" overrules the commandment forbidding the making of graven images.

    The seventh day Sabbath (and all of the sabbaths) are part of a covenant made with Israel which was brought out of Egypt, and their children. I was never a party to that covenant, nor would I be eligible to participate in the promises of that covenant (such as inheriting the land of Canaan.)

    Does the seventh day sabbath reflect a higher law? It reflects "love God" as in that we would do whatever God asks of us. The objective of the law is to remember the LORD, not the service of the day itself. The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. Oxen may still be rescued from ditches, and the priests may profane the sabbath in service of the temple or the LORD of the Sabbath.


    Example Three:

    Matthew 12:5-8 KJV
    (5) Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
    (6) But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
    (7) But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
    (8) For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

    There you have a third instance where the commandment of the LORD replaces one of those ten commandments. Commandments 3, 4, and 6 are not eternal and immutable; they are still subject to God to suspend or redefine as He pleases.
    Nothing is being replaced here.

    Jesus is CORRECTING people on their interpretation of it.

    “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.Six days you shall labor and do all your work,but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. - Exodus 20:8-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...1&version=NKJV

    Do you discount Romans 14 and Colossians 2 specifically? Or do you disregard the New Testament as being applicable or inspired? You haven't explained your reasoning.

    Would you consider the questions I brought forth here? And one more question:

    If God were to give you a new commandment (or commandments) would you be willing to obey that commandment (or commandments?) Why or why not? Thanks.


    Moral law does not change. It is ABSOLUTE.

    Symbolic law can and does (in the Bible), but is no longer applicable.

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    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    OK I'm game. Let's see.
    He did.
    Hold on. I was using the same words as TheThirdAngel144 did, to address their post directly, "You are morally obligated to keep the sign of the covenant (the Sabbath) between you and God, acknowledging Him as your Creator." I just granted that Sabbath keeping was 'the sign of the covenant...acknowledging [God] as [our] Creator,' without contest, because it isn't material to my response. The fact is that God (our Creator) has dedicated a new covenant between Him and His people.
    In contrast to TheThirdAngel144's claim that Sabbath-keeping is the modern 'sign' of God's people. Those acknowledging the new covenant are known for Mass, not for Sabbath-keeping.
    RD distinguished 'religion' from what's in the Bible, and Communion is in the Bible.
    Mass is a prayer, that's true. But 'vain?' That would require that Communion wasn't to be regularly celebrated. Again in the context of the post I was addressing, where the Sabbath is once a week, so Mass is once a week also.
    Celebrating something on a regular basis which was meant to be something done every once in a while on special occasions causes it to lose it's value. It loses it's "special-ness". People who pray on a schedule typically (though, not always) forget the meaning of it rather quickly, and it quickly turns into something that's done, "you must do this, or else... something."

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    The correct word is "murder," not "kill."

    This is a COMMON mistake.

    God is not the hypocrite that you make Him out to be.
    If your intent is to throw on rage-blinders and ignore the content (and neglect the questions) you might as well stop there.

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