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Thread: ELECT Sinners In The Hands Of An Angry God

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    There's another faulty premise. God does not expect us to "stick to the law".
    Really? What the... The entire point of the post wasn't to argue the concepts of moving from old to new testament. How about the point being made by the entire post (which was a response to someone who thinks God can do and be good or evil or w/e He wants b/c he's the final boss - while we must not sin, do the wrong thing, you know?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    It was stated that "we all know God exists," and your response to this was "I don't." So, you are saying "I don't know that God exists." Now, to what (if anything) are you referring by the word 'God', here? Are you referring, by the word 'God', to what Christians are referring to, by the word 'God', or not? I ask this because, if you're not referring, by the word 'God', to what Christians are referring to, by the word 'God', then, indeed, as you say, "there's no moving forward from there", since you are not talking about what Christians are talking about. So, to what (if anything) are you referring by the word, 'God', when you say "I don't know that God exists"?
    What?

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  4. #243
    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Have you ever heard the saying, "There are no atheists in foxholes"?

    You'll come across your own foxhole one of these days, and then we'll see if you're telling the truth or not.
    I know that's a popular phrase to throw about but what exactly is it supposed to represent? That the likelihood of impending mortality equates to belief? I think that most people when confronted with that would certainly hope that there was something beyond but that's rather different.
    Well this is fun isn't it?


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  6. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    It was stated that "we all know God exists," and your response to this was "I don't." So, you are saying "I don't know that God exists." Now, to what (if anything) are you referring by the word 'God', here? Are you referring, by the word 'God', to what Christians are referring to, by the word 'God', or not? I ask this because, if you're not referring, by the word 'God', to what Christians are referring to, by the word 'God', then, indeed, as you say, "there's no moving forward from there", since you are not talking about what Christians are talking about. So, to what (if anything) are you referring by the word, 'God', when you say "I don't know that God exists"?
    The Bible states very plainly, as in a matter of fact, that everyone knows God exists. It's taught to be self evident, and I think it's coming from a general, natural standpoint rather than specifically the Abrahamic god- to know Him, you have to be elected into the Kingdom.
    But to know that there is a maker is something we are born assuming. The animals know it, all life knows it- you rather have to be skeptical and 'un-know' it before proclaiming to be agnostic and even then God still whispers to the soul.

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  8. #245
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    Really? What the... The entire point of the post wasn't to argue the concepts of moving from old to new testament. How about the point being made by the entire post (which was a response to someone who thinks God can do and be good or evil or w/e He wants b/c he's the final boss - while we must not sin, do the wrong thing, you know?
    Guess I missed your point, didn't I?

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    Over 4000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    Ok. How? (have no idea what the "I mean to say guess" stuff is about) If you don't have an answer right now, that's fine; I'm not going to jump out and say, gotcha!
    For clarification, do you mean:

    a) "How can someone be faulted for choosing wrongly?"
    b) "How can someone be faulted for guessing wrongly?"

    The word choose implies that a choice is being made between one thing and another, as if these things are known. The word guess implies that the choices themselves are not properly known or that there is insufficient information for the choice.

    It is common sense that if someone knows the good and chooses evil they can certainly be faulted: they knew what both options were and entailed and they knowingly chose the evil. If this is mutually understood, does your question actually mean "How can they be faulted for guessing wrongly?"

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    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    I know that's a popular phrase to throw about but what exactly is it supposed to represent? That the likelihood of impending mortality equates to belief? I think that most people when confronted with that would certainly hope that there was something beyond but that's rather different.
    No, it means it takes some people being brought to their knees through outside circumstances before they even consider calling on their creator. When a person is laying in the gutter having lost everything, he just might begin to look UP. That's my point. Hope being the first stage of seeking God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    'One of your smarter posts, good for you.
    Hey, there you are! I see you're still trying to fill your time with more meaningless, juvenile-delinquent behavior, rather than by trying to answer the questions I asked you. Remember my post, #614, in the thread, The Gospel Proper, where I asked you

    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    Why do you refuse to take Paul's words literally?

    You take Jesus literally when He says "Whosoever eateth my flesh", yet you refuse to take Paul literally when he says "For as often as ye eat this bread".

    When are you going to answer the question? Oh, that's right, you can't answer it without further manifesting your irrationality and hypocrisy.

  13. #249
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post

    Man was created with the knowledge of God in his very being. He needs only look around at creation...the wonders of the universe...the birth of a child....the love of family...his conscience knowing good and evil. We all know God exists. Many don't want to admit it, because they don't know how to reach Him, or they don't want to give up doing what they know they shouldn't be doing.

    Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    You said it was so obvious and that anyone could see it, and you have someone here who says he doesn't see it. This isn't a meaningless exercise: I'm asking you to demonstrate this for his benefit and to his understanding rather than criticizing him.
    Before you begin your scolding, Rosen, you need to make sure you aren't falsely accusing someone of saying what someone else said, OR what you understood them to say. I said, "We all know that God exists", and then I proceeded to quote a couple of verses, Romans 1:19-20 which say what is plainly understood by "the things that are made". That is undoubtedly where you got the "so obvious, and that anyone could see it," part...which you then blamed someone else for saying. This is why you need to put quotes around what you are claiming someone said, so you can be called on your errors.

    I cannot find the "obvious" remarks. Maybe someone else was saying that.
    Yeah, "Maybe..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    What?
    When you say "I don't know that God exists," are you referring, by the word 'God', to what Christians are referring to, by the word 'God', when we say "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth", or are you not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    'One of your smarter posts, good for you.
    Obviously, your sentiment is trash. However, I'll give you a little compliment, here, by admitting that there's a little bit of comic cleverness in your remark. Made me chuckle a bit.

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    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    No, it means it takes some people being brought to their knees through outside circumstances before they even consider calling on their creator. When a person is laying in the gutter having lost everything, he just might begin to look UP. That's my point. Hope being the first stage of seeking God.
    Some people take the "suicide option" at that point also. I don't think it's an effective or productive phrase but just a soundbite in essence.
    Well this is fun isn't it?


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    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    Some people take the "suicide option" at that point also. I don't think it's an effective or productive phrase but just a soundbite in essence.
    Didn't say it was productive....simply stating a fact.

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    God might be angry. But there is a good anger and a bad anger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    Obviously, your sentiment is trash.
    It's . . . not. Yours is. You're a Troll. You're going to flame out soon, and before that hopefully you'll compose a song for us.

    Hopefully, you won't flame out, and you'll stop being a troll. That's up to you, ultimately, but I'll do what I can to assist.

    I am rooting for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    However, I'll give you a little compliment, here, by admitting that there's a little bit of comic cleverness in your remark.
    I know. Your arguing is excellent---excellent. Sharp mind. You've got the wrong theology though. There were others, many others, who believed in our Lord as fervently as we do. Some of them lived so near in time to the Events, that they either met one of the Apostles, or they knew someone who met one of the Apostles. As the Gospel spread, the Apostles were like proverbial rock stars, except that people Threw rocks at them. We get to peak in the window, just a peak, which is plenty to establish certain 'big picture' matters, like did the earliest Church consist of both Jews and Pagans? Yes. Was it life-threatening to be a Christian generally, and especially to be a bishop? Yes. What about baptism, was that with water? And were infants ever baptized? Yes, Yes. These types of things are easy to discern even from so far away in time as today.

    So your view has this early, early Church, in her infancy, so close to Christ that they knew how the Apostles smelled, the aroma that their bodies typically emitted, because they had met them, they had known them, they had known people who met and who knew them. And the Apostles knew JESUS.

    You have these people Immediately 'fouling' it up. You're the same as the unitariards in this regard---they talk like you; you talk like them. How, could they get it So Wrong, so soon? If it were scripted, I would characterize the story as a comedy. This is what your view, the unitariards, and a lot of other just recently Made Up Christian traditions and theologies, have on the early Church; 'the book' on the early Church is that it was administrated by clowns, holding clown offices, at some point along the way wearing clown costumes, because the office/role is, Clowns. And the Church is nothing but sober as a judge, when it comes to clowning around. This is what you have to think, because if there weren't actual clowns involved, how did she go So Wrong so soon after the Apostles departed this earth?

    It's got to be clowns. 'No other option.
    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    Made me chuckle a bit.
    Unsurprised. Why do you think I know that? It's not just certain words users use, even certain word combinations, and where they put the quotation marks wrt periods and commas and other punctuation, that you can learn from them, just by being observant. It's even deeper, you can tease out their sense of humor as well, not because they're revealing it on purpose, but because they've accidentally let enough out to put together the picture.

    I'm just jerking your chain. I had no idea that was funny. I just was responding to an earlier post, rather than the other one you laid for me, like an egg.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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