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Thread: The Gospel Proper

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    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    According to your view, Mark 16:16 KJV means that someone who tragically loses their life, after coming to true Christian faith in the Gospel, but before they got water baptized, then too bad; they're going to burn---better luck next time! oh this was their only chance.

    That just can't be, and I think you agree that it just can't be, so you've got to really get imaginative and creative in how you're interpreting Mark 16:16 KJV to make it fit with the above hypothetical and rhetorical scenario.

    I would contend that the hypothetical individual above is saved, will be saved, even though they weren't baptized before they died.

    I think you would agree with that, but what do you say?
    Those who had to be baptized also had to be circumcised, obedient to the commandments, and all the laws of Moses. So what's one more minor detail?

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    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    I suggest you're not. Bishops are men and men can and often are wrong. The bible is not.



    I suggest to you that your church has changed baptism to something different than what we find in the bible.
    You prefer the Jewish church...IN THE TEMPLE, right?

    Acts 2:44-47 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. 46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

  3. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    You prefer the Jewish church...IN THE TEMPLE, right?

    Acts 2:44-47 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. 46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
    WOW, anything to deflect from the truth.
    Do you believe Jesus?
    16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

    Paul believed Him.
    Acts 18:8 Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.
    Do you see the connection?
    Last edited by turbosixx; December 7th, 2018 at 02:25 AM. Reason: to avoid the deflection
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Do you believe Jesus?
    Mk. 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

    Out of the crowd who listened to Peter, which ones were added?
    Acts 2:41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
    You are a cherry-picker.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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  6. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    I've observed that as well, but that doesn't change that I have never seen an arrogant spirit from someone who sought baptism.
    Which is completely irrelevant to the issue of a required water ceremony.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    There were washings in the OT but we are in a different dispensation.
    In your understanding, what method of water baptism did Paul perform?
    I stay on topic, my topic, and thus addressed this "immersion" made up jazz, only, in my brilliant post.

    And, oh-I did not know that there were washings in the OT.......

    Take your seat,please.Thank you for your cooperation.

    Jethro John
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    I believe they are saved but that's my opinion.
    That's what I thought.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Judging them is God's end of the stick.
    Agreed.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    We can't use that hypothetical situation to make what Jesus said untrue.
    I never suggested that what Jesus said isn't true.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Jesus's words are the truth.
    Of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Let God judge those who tragically die before baptism.
    Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Of all those who heard Peter, who were the ones added to the church?
    Acts 2:41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
    Right.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    It has been my observation that those that willingly humble themselves unto baptism are generally more agreeable to the fruits of the spirit than those that spitefully argue against the ordinance.



    Galatians 5:22 KJV

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,


    Ephesians 5:9 KJV

    (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth

    "It has been my observation that those that willingly" ignore, do not study the details of the bible, a book of details, are lazy, lackadaisical, nonchalant, careless, exhibiting one of the reasons for their "forced," jumbled interpretation; the other prime reason, being their refusal to rightly divide the word of truth, as commanded by 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV. To wit:

    So there.

    "fruits"-plural-you

    Vs.

    "fruit"-singular-the bible



    Contrasts.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    I suggest you're not. Bishops are men and men can be wrong.
    29 I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them.
    Nothing that the bishops teach in matters of faith and morals contradicts Scripture. And so they can't be these 'fierce wolves.' In the light of history, I believe this warning applied first of all to those who rose up teaching that Christ Jesus did Not come in the flesh, but was essentially an apparition, and His crucifixion and Resurrection did not happen like how we read in the Gospel accounts that we have. We know them now as 'docetists' or 'gnostic docetists.' After them, there were all sorts of others who rose up and taught other things contrary to the truth, such as the Arians, and later on, the Protestants also.

    What the bishops do consistently is bring clarity to the Scripture. E.g. the Trinity. Would that there were a book in the New Testament devoted to explicating this doctrine! But there is not. But the bishops fill out the whole doctrine, which comports with what is recorded in Scripture, explaining every detail, such that the whole Scripture becomes more accessible. The Trinity is only one example.

    And while the bishops are men, it is granted, the office of Bishop was instituted by the Apostles, and it was to be a continuing office, as shown by Paul writing to bishops, and instructing them on how to make new bishops, which we've discussed before. Not only do we read that the Apostles through the imposition of their own hands created bishops, but we see that their instruction was for those bishops to create new bishops themselves, and through the same 'procedure.'
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    The bible is not wrong.
    I Never said the Bible was wrong, ever, about anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    You say we need bishops because the bible is inadequate? It has everything we need so that we do not need to rely on men.
    2 Tim. 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
    No, I Never said that. I don't reject any scripture. The Apostles' job was to instruct the Church in everything that Christ Jesus taught them, and the Bishop has that same job. Bishops are not 'authoritative interpreters of Scripture' however; the Apostles were---bishops are to transmit what the Apostles taught, in word or in epistle, to the Church.

    The bishops are a Gift to the Church. They are given to us freely by Christ, through His Apostles, so that we can always know what He wants us to know, and to worship the Father as the Father wants us to worship Him.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Your church has changed baptism into something different than what we find in God's word.
    I disagree that the Catholic Church has done any such thing.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Those who had to be baptized also had to be circumcised
    I disagree. Was Cornelius circumcised?
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    You prefer the Jewish church...IN THE TEMPLE, right?

    Acts 2:44-47 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. 46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
    James ('the Just') was the first bishop of the church in Jerusalem, a church which continued for generations until the Romans literally evicted all Jews from the city, many years after Pentecost and the destruction of the city in AD 70. After that, we don't really know what happened to that church. The people weren't killed, they just had to flee, and we don't know where they wound up.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    I disagree. Was Cornelius circumcised?
    The Bible does not say one way or the other.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    James ('the Just') was the first bishop of the church in Jerusalem, a church which continued for generations until the Romans literally evicted all Jews from the city, many years after Pentecost and the destruction of the city in AD 70.
    What about Peter? Wasn't Peter the first?

    Why do we read that Judas was quickly replaced, but not the same with James in Acts 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    After that, we don't really know what happened to that church.
    The RCC claims otherwise. They claim that there has been an unbroken succession from Peter until now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    WOW, anything to deflect from the truth.
    Do you believe Jesus?
    16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

    Fine. Do you "believe Jesus?"

    Then, do be a dear, and sell all you have. Offer the gift that Moses commanded, and show yourself to a Levitical priest. Raise the dead. Pick up vipers. Drink anti-freeze. Tell no one that "Jesus" is the Christ. And.................................

    Agreed?

    No? Why don't you "believe Jesus?"
    Saint John W

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    Over 1000 post club Idolater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    What about Peter? Wasn't Peter the first?
    No, but Peter and John and James the sons of Zebedee, together agreed upon James. This had already occurred by Acts 15.
    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Why do we read that Judas was quickly replaced, but not the same with James in Acts 12?
    James the Just was not an Apostle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    The RCC claims otherwise. They claim that there has been an unbroken succession from Peter until now.
    I was only talking about what would today be called the 'Jerusalem diocese.' That church was lost to history, so far as I can tell, once the Romans evicted all Jews from Jerusalem.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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