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Thread: Sometimes President Trump Gets It Right

  1. #31
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    To those people who are defending the "Right to try" legislation, what you are ultimately in favor of is the right of corporations to swindle desperate, terminally ill patients out of their money.

    That is a morally bankrupt position to hold.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    then remove the profit and force the manufacturers to provide untested drugs gratis
    That's an interesting proposal. I'm not sure that I'm opposed to this idea. The patients could be used as test subjects for FDA testing. The money would come from corporate R&D budgets.

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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditio View Post
    To those people who are defending the "Right to try" legislation, what you are ultimately in favor of is the right of corporations to swindle desperate, terminally ill patients out of their money.

    That is a morally bankrupt position to hold.
    why do you say "swindle"?

    what are they doing that is deceptive or fraudulent?

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    why do you say "swindle"?

    what are they doing that is deceptive or fraudulent?
    Alex. Jones. Sells. Health. Supplements.

    "Snake oil salesman" isn't just a turn of phrase. That actually used to happen before regulation.

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    Going back to your proposal, though, Ok Doser:

    The only problem I can see here is that health insurance companies might be incentivized to opt for the free, developmental drugs over drugs that have actually been tested.

    But you can solve this problem simply by stipulating that the "right to try" only can occur if all other effective treatments have failed.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditio View Post
    Alex. Jones. Sells. Health. Supplements.

    "Snake oil salesman" isn't just a turn of phrase. That actually used to happen before regulation.
    what claims do modern marketers of alternative therapies make that are fraudulent or deceptive (the definition of "swindle")?

    for example, what claims does (did?) alex jones make about the supplements he sold?

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    a team that will still have little knowledge of potential benefits, potential negative side effects, interactions with other drugs, etc, because there won't be any studies published, there won't be any entries in the Davis Drug Guide, there won't be any manufacturer's usage sheets provided - there will be anecdotal evidence and advice from non-professionals on the internet

    physicians will be very reluctant to give advice on these substances in any but the most extreme cases
    Wrong. Testing studies will be available. What won't be available is an approval by the FDA.
    Do you think that human testing doesn't take place before the FDA gives approval?
    I get the distinct feeling you have no clue in this discussion.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    what claims do modern marketers of alternative therapies make that are fraudulent or deceptive (the definition of "swindle")?

    for example, what claims does (did?) alex jones make about the supplements he sold?
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucele.../#38b6e9ab3e7f

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    I get the distinct feeling you have no clue in this discussion.
    Worked in basic research using animal models, primarily rats, in research that lead to the current crop of cholesterol drugs

    Worked on clinical trials for surfactant use in preemies

    Currently working in direct patient care, studying medications, their interactions, etc


    How about you?

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    Worked in basic research using animal models, primarily rats, in research that lead to the current crop of cholesterol drugs

    Worked on clinical trials for surfactant use in preemies

    Currently working in direct patient care, studying medications, their interactions, etc


    How about you?
    Worked with people who have to make life and death decisions on a daily basis. Worked with people for whom a clinical trial that is ten years down the road before approval means they are dead.
    Keep doing your job...and speed it up...

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditio View Post
    No. The choice for that ONE PATIENT is try or die.

    I don't care about that one patient. I care about the more general state of affairs. It's better that the one patient die than that we have untested drugs on the market (possibly resulting in even more patients dying, and not only that, but being swindled out of their money in the process).
    Well, Trad, 38 states already have the law. I haven't heard of any bad results yet.

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    Ok, read through it - lots of fuzzy claims - anything in particular grab you that's deceptive or fraudulent?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    Sometimes President Trump Gets It Right
    He always gets it right

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  16. The Following User Says Thank You to ok doser For Your Post:

    CatholicCrusader (December 23rd, 2018)

  17. #45
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    I wonder why this came up, given that the IND exemption already exists:

    Emergency Use IND allows the FDA to authorize use of an experimental drug in an emergency situation that does not allow time for submission of an IND in accordance with 21CFR , Sec. 312.23 or Sec. 312.20. It is also used for patients who do not meet the criteria of an existing study protocol, or if an approved study protocol does not exist.
    https://www.fda.gov/drugs/developmen...on/default.htm

    Maybe clarifying "emergency?" I would think that "going to die, and no approved procedure or drug will help" would constitute an emergency. But maybe not. Anyway, this merely expands something that's already in place in the law.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

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