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Thread: Galatians 6: 15-16 and the Two Peoples-Two Program Division of Dispensationalism

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    Galatians 6: 15-16 and the Two Peoples-Two Program Division of Dispensationalism

    Galatians 6: 15-16 and the Two Peoples-Two Program Division of Dispensationalism

    "For in Christ Jesus nether circumcision availeth any thing at all nor uncircumcision: but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon Israel that pertaineth to God."

    This is from the Tyndale-Cloverdale New Testament in Modern English Spelling.

    In Galatians 6: 15-16 Paul repeats what he had said in II Corinthians 5: 17, "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature. Old things are passed away: behold, all things are become new. "

    A New Testament text by Paul which supports Galatians 6: 15-16 and II Corinthians 5: 17 is Romans 12: 2, "And fashion not yourselves like unto this world: But be changed through the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what thing that good, that acceptable, and perfect will of God is. "

    I prefer the King James translation of Romans 12: 2 - "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

    The King James emphasizes the Greek word μεταμορφουσθαι, metamorphousathai. or metamorphosis.

    Through faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ the New Creature or New Person created in Christ has undergone a metamorphosis, a large change, a transformation.

    It is these people, who have undergone a large transformation in Christ by the Holy Spirit, though faith in the Gospel who in verse 15 are said by Paul to be the Israel of God.

    Why refer to them as "the Israel of God?" Why not just call them Israel?

    Paul in Romans 9: 6-8 says ". For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
    7. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
    8. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."

    And in I Corinthians 10: 18 Paul says "Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the alter?"

    There is ισραηλ κατα σαρκα, or Israel Kata Sarka, Israel after the flesh, in I Corinthians 10: 18 and a different ισραηλ του θεου, or Israel of God, in Galatians 6: 16.

    We know from Galatians 3: 28 and Romans 10: 12 that in the Israel of God in Galatians 6: 16 are both Jews of Faith and Gentiles of Faith.

    Romans 10: 12 says "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him"

    Then Galatians 3: 28-29, at the end of Paul's important chapter on faith. says "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
    29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

    Paul had said in Galatians 3: 14 "That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."
    Last edited by northwye; November 5th, 2018 at 09:19 AM.

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    Hi and Gal 6:16 says Israel of God and NOT GENTILES of God !!

    In Gal 3: 28 there are NO JEWS or GENTILES !!

    dan p

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    We know that dispensationalism makes a division or separation between Gentiles and Jews. But the New Testament says there is a unity between saved Gentiles and saved Jews.

    "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
    27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
    28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3: 26-28

    "Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
    12. That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
    13. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
    14. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
    15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;" Ephesians 2: 11-15

    Unsaved or unchanged Jews and unchanged Gentiles are not the one new man here, but the one new man who is a changed Jew and Changed Gentiles are united.

    The New Man, whether New Jew or New Gentile is born again - see John 3: 1-6.

    Now look at dispensationalism -

    "Lewis S. Chafer said that dispensationalism has "...changed the Bible from being a mass of more or less conflicting
    writings into a classified and easily assimilated revelation of both
    the earthly and heavenly purposes of God, which reach on into eternity
    to come.." Lewis. S. Chafer, ‘Dispensationalism,’ Bibliotheca Sacra, 93 (October 1936), 410, 416, 446-447

    Chafer, a founder of Christian Zionism, following John Darby and C.I. Scofield, claimed the Bible is a mass or more or less conflicting writings and that dispensationalism or Christian Zionism makes the Bible more easily classified and assimilated, or more easily understood."

    In changing the New Testament theology dispensationalism has systematized the theology by making divisions, especially between Israel and the Church, and Jew and Gentile, by their physical genetics.

    In making the division between Old Covenant Israel and the Church and between Jew and Gentile by their physical DNA dispensationalism has changed what Galatians 3: 26-28 and Ephesians 2: 11-15 teach about the unity between saved Jew and Saved Gentile - or has made that unity ambiguous and confusing.

    The purpose of Christ;s Gospel is to save sinners, to change them so that they can become born again by the Holy Spirit (John 3: 6).

    The purpose of the Gospel is not mainly to present a systematized system with divisions between Israel and the Church and between physical Jews and Physical Gentiles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by northwye View Post
    We know that dispensationalism makes a division or separation between Gentiles and Jews. But the New Testament says there is a unity between saved Gentiles and saved Jews.

    "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
    27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
    28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3: 26-28

    "Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
    12. That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
    13. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
    14. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
    15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;" Ephesians 2: 11-15

    Unsaved or unchanged Jews and unchanged Gentiles are not the one new man here, but the one new man who is a changed Jew and Changed Gentiles are united.

    The New Man, whether New Jew or New Gentile is born again - see John 3: 1-6.

    Now look at dispensationalism -

    "Lewis S. Chafer said that dispensationalism has "...changed the Bible from being a mass of more or less conflicting
    writings into a classified and easily assimilated revelation of both
    the earthly and heavenly purposes of God, which reach on into eternity
    to come.." Lewis. S. Chafer, ‘Dispensationalism,’ Bibliotheca Sacra, 93 (October 1936), 410, 416, 446-447

    Chafer, a founder of Christian Zionism, following John Darby and C.I. Scofield, claimed the Bible is a mass or more or less conflicting writings and that dispensationalism or Christian Zionism makes the Bible more easily classified and assimilated, or more easily understood."

    In changing the New Testament theology dispensationalism has systematized the theology by making divisions, especially between Israel and the Church, and Jew and Gentile, by their physical genetics.

    In making the division between Old Covenant Israel and the Church and between Jew and Gentile by their physical DNA dispensationalism has changed what Galatians 3: 26-28 and Ephesians 2: 11-15 teach about the unity between saved Jew and Saved Gentile - or has made that unity ambiguous and confusing.

    The purpose of Christ;s Gospel is to save sinners, to change them so that they can become born again by the Holy Spirit (John 3: 6).

    The purpose of the Gospel is not mainly to present a systematized system with divisions between Israel and the Church and between physical Jews and Physical Gentiles.
    northwye, I'd like your take on this message on what has been going on in Israel - it's by a Messianic Jew...

    Though I don't agree with them on various of their understandings, I found what he described of their work and its results, absolutely inspiring.

    Thanks, in advance

    https://youtu.be/n_k6L0TBEzM


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    About fifteen years ago I was a member of two Christian Yahoo Groups on the Internet. The second group had grown out of the first group, and both groups were interested in a Christian Remnant viewpoint. The groups were small, like 30 to 40 people, and about half of them posted regularly. A few members did broadcasts or podcasts. I did one which was on the Internet. Some broadcasters became interested in small groups of Messianic Jews in the U.S. and made contact with one small group. I think they even made an audio with two or three of these Messianic Jews, whose views appeared on the surface to be similar to ours. But it was hard to tell for sure.

    I am still able to make audios and put them on the Internet, for example, on a site called Archive. But Christian forums may not allow links to personal audios. I have used Facebook for that purpose.

    But interacting with Messianic Jews is not what I am talking about on this thread. I am talking about the effect that dispensationalism has upon being born again according to John 3: 1-6, and that the focus on this and other Christian forums does not make use of the Gospel of Christ in such a way that readers are brought to the realization that they are not born again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by northwye View Post
    About fifteen years ago I was a member of two Christian Yahoo Groups on the Internet. The second group had grown out of the first group, and both groups were interested in a Christian Remnant viewpoint. The groups were small, like 30 to 40 people, and about half of them posted regularly. A few members did broadcasts or podcasts. I did one which was on the Internet. Some broadcasters became interested in small groups of Messianic Jews in the U.S. and made contact with one small group. I think they even made an audio with two or three of these Messianic Jews, whose views appeared on the surface to be similar to ours. But it was hard to tell for sure.

    I am still able to make audios and put them on the Internet, for example, on a site called Archive. But Christian forums may not allow links to personal audios. I have used Facebook for that purpose.

    But interacting with Messianic Jews is not what I am talking about on this thread. I am talking about the effect that dispensationalism has upon being born again according to John 3: 1-6, and that the focus on this and other Christian forums does not make use of the Gospel of Christ in such a way that readers are brought to the realization that they are not born again.
    Our wires ended up crossed somewhere in between our post to one another - as I alluded in my previous post, I was asking for "your take on...what he described of their work and its results" - which was, in fact about their work in the spread of the gospel in Israel, and the results of their work.

    As for the balance of your reply, I'll also have to disagree - note the focus in the back and forth with the poster Jacob, on the following thread, started by him - clarity on the gospel...

    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...-Trinity/page3

    What's more, CLARITY on the gospel IS a Dispensational issue, given the difference in ECONOMIES between what had been required under the Law as a demonstration of one's faith (given both the actual intent of one aspect of the Law - the awareness of indwelling sin - and given that said requirement had been prior to the finished work of Christ), which necessarily differs from what is required as a demonstration of faith, this side of said finished work of the Cross.

    Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

    3:21 BUT NOW the righteousness of God WITHOUT the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 TO DECLARE, I say, AT THIS TIME his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

    Fact is that one can "not make use of the Gospel of Christ in such a way that readers are brought to the realization that they are not" saved, ABSENT of the DISTINCTION BETWEEN Law and Grace.

    Likewise, as to the DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BOTH in one's DAILY walk and or a SOUND attempt at said walk...

    Romans 7:6 BUT NOW[ we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

    Solution, AND enablement, THIS SIDE OF THE CROSS?

    Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

    Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

    These ARE Dispensational Issues (issues and solutions DIFFERENT within their RESPECTIVE ECONOMY).

    And those are just two distinctions of many.

    Nevertheless, Romans 14:5, in memory of Romans 5:6-8, in EACH our stead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    northwye, I'd like your take on this message on what has been going on in Israel - it's by a Messianic Jew...

    Though I don't agree with them on various of their understandings, I found what he described of their work and its results, absolutely inspiring.

    Thanks, in advance

    https://youtu.be/n_k6L0TBEzM

    Still awaiting your actually watching that very moving video about the many thousands of Israelites the Messianics in Israel itself have been bringing to the Lord.

    After all, at the very least, you have continually implied that because political intrigue had been behind the re-establishing of Israel as a Nation, God can do no good with that.

    On the contrary...

    1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

    1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

    By what means has the salvation of God been going on in Israel, regardless of the political intrigues of this world?

    Via, as it is in truth, the Word of God that has been effectually working over there, in Believing Israelites...

    1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

    Result of the Word working in those who believe it to be the Word of God with power and authority, regardless of the goings on of men all around them?

    1 Thessalonians 1:8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing. 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

    Or as Paul had described said Word working him, despite whatever man might or might not be up to...

    Philippians 1:12 But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things which happened unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel;

    Because Rom. 5:6-8.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    northwye, I'd like your take on this message on what has been going on in Israel - it's by a Messianic Jew...

    Though I don't agree with them on various of their understandings, I found what he described of their work and its results, absolutely inspiring.

    Thanks, in advance

    https://youtu.be/n_k6L0TBEzM

    Wow...I had no idea this was going on in Israel.

    Thanks for sharing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Wow...I had no idea this was going on in Israel.

    Thanks for sharing.
    Some years ago, I hooked up with some Messianics for a while, accompanying them during their Evangelism, wanting to know what their approach was.

    What I found is that it is in the form of an every day conversation between two people.

    The following 9 minutes by the Messianic Israeli Evangelism group "ONE For Israel" (just love that dual use of the word One) well illustrates the basic, Messianic approach AS A BEGINNING, when approaching their own.

    Theirs is a mix of themes described in the OT, nicely captstoned by issues that Paul raises in in Romans 1 thru 3 and in Romans 5.

    Nice!

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iDvyotUW2dM



    Note:

    Not mentioned is their typical ice-breakers, when approaching their own - "tell me, to you, who was Yeshua?"

    Other times, it's "do you think on spiritual matters much, or say, on what happens after a person leaves this world?"

    Rom. 5:6-8.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Some years ago, I hooked up with some Messianics for a while, accompanying them during their Evangelism, wanting to know what their approach was.

    What I found is that it is in the form of an every day conversation between two people.

    The following 9 minutes by the Messianic Israeli Evangelism group "ONE For Israel" (just love that dual use of the word One) well illustrates the basic, Messianic approach AS A BEGINNING, when approaching their own.

    Theirs is a mix of themes described in the OT, nicely captstoned by issues that Paul raises in in Romans 1 thru 3 and in Romans 5.

    Nice!

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iDvyotUW2dM



    Note:

    Not mentioned is their typical ice-breakers, when approaching their own - "tell me, to you, who was Yeshua?"

    Other times, it's "do you think on spiritual matters much, or say, on what happens after a person leaves this world?"

    Rom. 5:6-8.
    That is so encouraging to see. What a blessing.

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