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Thread: Catholicism and the Bible

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    I believe they were evangelist. I won't say what the bible doesn't
    Do you say that pornography is wrong?
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    so what it does say is, in the case of Timothy, he was to teach.
    1 Tim. 4:11 Command and teach these things.
    'Glad you've pointed out that 1st Timothy was written to Timothy, and not to the Church at large. We accept that 1st Timothy was written For the Church, but not specifically To the Church. Whatever Timothy was, it was Timothy who was commanded by Paul to 'teach.' So if we know what Timothy was, what office he held, then we would be justified in applying that to someone else who is the same thing, or who holds the same office.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    I'm sorry if I miss understood you. I thought you had said that the laying of hands was unbroken
    I did say that, and it is unbroken.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    and based on that I concluded you believed the leaders of the RCC were guided by the Spirit.
    OK.

    The 'leaders' are the bishops, and I also believe that the Orthodox bishops are valid bishops, and that therefore Orthodox sacraments are all valid, due to the same imposition of hands, Holy Orders.

    The bishops, including the pope, do not have the authority to change anything Apostolic, and this concerns every matter of faith or morals. The Apostles were the ones to whom the Lord promised the Spirit of truth; as with 1st Timothy above, addressed to Timothy only, Christ Jesus promised the Spirit of truth to His future Apostles only; Scripture records this promise For the Church, but it is not made To the Church, just to the Apostles. Scripture/the Lord makes no promise to me and to you concerning the Spirit of truth. He promised to send the Spirit of truth to His Apostles; that is the guarantee. If we know what the Apostles taught, then we know the truth.

    You had said that you "don't hold history as inspired by God," and I was just saying that I don't hold history as inspired by God either, but I don't reject history, just because it's not all in the Bible.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    This is what I mean. Scripture is inspired by God.
    Agreed, and specifically here is why I agree. The Spirit of truth came to the Apostles, and they themselves, guided by the Spirit of truth, confirmed the Old Testament as Sacred Scripture, authorized New Testament books and epistles as Sacred Scripture, and wrote New Testament books and epistles that are 'de facto' Sacred Scripture, due to the Apostles being guided by the Spirit of truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Going on 2,000 years after scripture has been completed, I can compare the teachings of someone to scripture. If I find it in scripture then it's from God, if not it's from man.
    You should allow for teachings that are not found in Scripture, but that also don't contradict Scripture, such as the teaching that pornography is gravely immoral.

    And consider what you say here: "If I find it in scripture then it's from God, if not it's from man." Can you show me this in Scripture? Chapter and verse?
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    The reason I quoted that passage is because it tell us scripture is sufficient for everything we need.
    2 Tim. 3:16All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
    If it's not in scripture it's not from God.
    That was written when Scripture was the Old Testament. But even taking the New Testament, we see there the Bishop, a Church office, along with the Deacon. Who is your bishop? Mine's Seán O'Malley.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    The church is the "pillar and ground of the truth" but the RCC is not the church. Looking at it's history should be all anyone needs to do to see that. For example, the inquisitions. Were they from God or man?
    The Church due to her dramatic growth and success became entangled in civil authority in the 4th century. For centuries and centuries, 'simony,' which is the purchasing of a bishopric, was a rampant problem during this period, and many bishops, and even some popes, were holding office that really shouldn't have been there. But just because a poor candidate holds an office, doesn't disintegrate the office itself, the office remains after the poor candidate retires or dies. The Bishop survived the corruption, and now that the Church has been disentangling herself from civil authority, simony is no longer a problem. Simony was a problem because the bishops possessed real political power when there was no separation between Church and state, when religious liberty was not recognized and protected, and when the Church was the established religion.

    The inquisitions were a violation of the right to religious liberty. The Reformation was over religious liberty. The First Amendment recognizes religious liberty. The LGBTQ civil rights movement is about religious liberty.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Is Catholicism Biblical, or is it a perversion of the Scriptures, either intentional through malicious intent, or unintentional due to misunderstanding of what it says?

    Let's discuss Catholicism.
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    (Tagging a few people here to get the ball rolling: @Idolater @Grosnick Marowbe @Stripe @ok doser @glorydaz @Ask Mr. Religion

    Feel free to tag others who would benefit from this discussion)
    LOL!! What a joke! None of you have the slightest clue about the Catholic Church, let alone about Christianity in general. Most of you have lied through your teeth for years about the Catholic Church, telling the most vile atrocious, and ignorant, lies. This thread is laughable. The real thread on this subject is HERE.

    So, I will interject the only truthful post in this thread:

    QUOTE:

    Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)

    Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history.

    Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.

    The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human organization, especially considering that its human members— even some of its leaders—have been unwise, corrupt, or prone to heresy.

    Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.

    FOUR MARKS OF THE TRUE CHURCH

    If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

    The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13)
    Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches. The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse, and his spouse is the Catholic Church. His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2). Over the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church comes to understand them more deeply (John 16:12–13), but it never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once meant.

    The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8)
    By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23). But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

    The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10)
    Jesus’ Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20). For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28). Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19). The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

    The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20)
    The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2). These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary’s special role, and much more —even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself. Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim.

    Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth

    Man’s ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic—not through man’s effort, but because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18, 28:20). He guided the Israelites on their escape from Egypt by giving them a pillar of fire to light their way across the dark wilderness (Exod. 13:21). Today he guides us through his Catholic Church.

    The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus’ authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the Catholic Church, which the Bible calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

    Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12–13). We can have confidence that his Church teaches only the truth.


    END EXCERPT QUOTE

    SOURCE:


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  4. #109
    Over 1000 post club Idolater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
    I will interject the only truthful post in this thread:
    Show a single post of mine itt that's incorrect in any way.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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