User Tag List

Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 99

Thread: ACTS 2 PENTECOST

  1. #46
    Over 500 post club
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    610
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 112 Times in 86 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    12242
    Greetings again Right Divider,
    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Your complete lack of understanding ALL that the Bible contains is very typical of the shallow "knowledge" of the adherents of Churchianity.
    I think that many of us once believed a lot of the same things, until we studied. And now we know better than that.
    You seem to have changed your position on the bride of Christ, to now agree with JudgeRightly "The Bride of Christ is Israel". The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

  2. #47
    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    On the road
    Posts
    7,349
    Thanks
    23,860
    Thanked 6,762 Times in 4,245 Posts

    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147602
    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings JudgeRightly and Greetings again Right Divider, Both of your forum names remind me of those who called a particular ship “The Titanic”.
    Titanic: of exceptional strength, size, or power.

    So, calling the ship titanic because she was one of the biggest ships of her day, and calling us Right Divider and JudgeRightly are the same?

    In other words, stating the obvious?

    I'll take that as a compliment!

    The bride of Christ and the body of Christ are parts of the one concept based upon the creation of Eve, who became the bride of Adam and was part of his body.
    Throughout the Old Testament, and several places in the New, Israel (yes, ISRAEL) is constantly referred to as a woman whom God has courted, married, fought with, divorced, and will eventually remarry.

    The Body of Christ is NEVER spoken of in this way.

    Things that are different are not the same....

    The same is true of Christ and all his disciples, both Jew and Gentile.
    All of Christ's disciples were Jewish... and will rule over the twelve tribes of ISRAEL.

    Genesis 2:21-23 (KJV): 21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Womanj, because she was taken out of Man.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
    Which has nothing at all to do with either Israel or the Body of Christ.....

    Trevor, ignoring what the context of a verse says is like trying to apply "Curse God and die" and "go and do likewise" to your life. It's biblically accurate, but doesn't make much sense to do so, because one is Job's wife getting mad at him, and the second is Jesus speaking to a lawyer. Two completely different conversations.

    You quoting Genesis 2 to support your belief that Israel is the same as the Body of Christ is like comparing birds with black holes, because they both contain matter...

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JudgeRightly For Your Post:

    Right Divider (November 6th, 2018),steko (November 7th, 2018)

  4. #48
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    13,713
    Thanks
    11,241
    Thanked 19,145 Times in 10,784 Posts

    Blog Entries
    5
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147683

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings again Right Divider, You seem to have changed your position on the bride of Christ, to now agree with JudgeRightly "The Bride of Christ is Israel". The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
    I will not go down your rabbit holes. If you want to discuss symbolism, metaphor, simile, and various figures of speech, etc.... start another thread.

    Sticking to the topic, Acts 2 Pentecost... you can see that Peter is quoting the prophets of Israel about things that will happen based on their prophecy. Peter does not preach the cross as GOOD NEWS, but as a MURDER WEAPON and a SHAME to those that killed their Christ.

    Act 2:22-24 KJV Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: (23) Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: (24) Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

    That is a MURDER INDICTMENT and not a proclamation of GOOD NEWS.

    Peter is preaching to Israel:

    Act 2:36 KJV Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

    That is CLEAR and INCONTROVERTIBLE.

    It is only through the glasses of the myths of Churchianity that it cannot be seen for what it is.
    Last edited by Right Divider; November 6th, 2018 at 08:13 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Right Divider For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (November 6th, 2018),steko (November 6th, 2018)

  6. #49
    Over 500 post club
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    610
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 112 Times in 86 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    12242
    Greetings again JudgeRightly,
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Titanic: of exceptional strength, size, or power. So, calling the ship titanic because she was one of the biggest ships of her day, and calling us Right Divider and JudgeRightly are the same? In other words, stating the obvious? I'll take that as a compliment!
    I was not suggesting a compliment. The best construct is that you both claim titles, and that you seem to be sincere in your claims. Those that named the Titanic were most probably very optimistic as to the almost invincibility of their new ship and its remarkable design.
    Throughout the Old Testament, and several places in the New, Israel (yes, ISRAEL) is constantly referred to as a woman whom God has courted, married, fought with, divorced, and will eventually remarry. The Body of Christ is NEVER spoken of in this way. Things that are different are not the same....
    The Body of Christ is also spoken of as the Bride of Christ:
    Ephesians 5:30–32 (KJV): 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
    All of Christ's disciples were Jewish... and will rule over the twelve tribes of ISRAEL.
    Which has nothing at all to do with either Israel or the Body of Christ.....
    Trevor, ignoring what the context of a verse says is like trying to apply "Curse God and die" and "go and do likewise" to your life. It's biblically accurate, but doesn't make much sense to do so, because one is Job's wife getting mad at him, and the second is Jesus speaking to a lawyer. Two completely different conversations.
    You quoting Genesis 2 to support your belief that Israel is the same as the Body of Christ is like comparing birds with black holes, because they both contain matter...
    I am not saying that Israel is the same as the Body of Christ. I am saying that all the disciples of Jesus whether Jews or Gentiles are the Body of Christ, including the 3000 at Pentecost and for example the Ekklesia at Ephesus.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

  7. #50
    Over 500 post club
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    610
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 112 Times in 86 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    12242
    Greetings again Right Divider,
    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    That is a MURDER INDICTMENT and not a proclamation of GOOD NEWS. Peter is preaching to Israel:
    Act 2:36 KJV Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
    That is CLEAR and INCONTROVERTIBLE.
    It is only through the glasses of the myths of Churchianity that it cannot be seen for what it is.
    And 3000 of these Jews repented and accepted Jesus as their Lord and Christ, and were baptised and joined the fellowship of the Apostles and thus became part of the Body and Bride of Christ. I find your favourite word “Churchianity” inappropriate.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

  8. #51
    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    On the road
    Posts
    7,349
    Thanks
    23,860
    Thanked 6,762 Times in 4,245 Posts

    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147602
    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings again JudgeRightly, I was not suggesting a compliment. The best construct is that you both claim titles, and that you seem to be sincere in your claims. Those that named the Titanic were most probably very optimistic as to the almost invincibility of their new ship and its remarkable design.
    Considering that "titanic" means "of extreme strength, size, or power", calling the Titanic by that name was fairly accurate.

    So what was your point again? Was it an attempt at putting us down? Because you didn't do a very good job, only strengthening the ties to our names.

    All of this, however, has NOTHING TO DO with the topic. So please, get back on topic.

    The Body of Christ is also spoken of as the Bride of Christ:

    Ephesians 5:30–32 (KJV): 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
    I think you need to read from earlier in the chapter, or better yet, try to understand the context, including whom Paul is talking to.

    Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus: - Ephesians 1:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...1&version=NKJV

    Considering that the believers in Israel are referred to as the "church", and that Paul is talking to SAINTS, now we read what is in Ephesians 5.

    Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word,that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself.For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church.For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.“For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. - Ephesians 5:22-33 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...3&version=NKJV

    Paul is speaking about two groups of people, the church, and the body.

    The church, being Israel.
    The body, being the BOC.

    I am not saying that Israel is the same as the Body of Christ.
    Yes, you are, by saying the Bride of Christ is the Body of Christ. Israel IS the Bride of Christ.

    Christians are not Israel. Israel are not Christains.

    I am saying that all the disciples of Jesus whether Jews or Gentiles are the Body of Christ,
    Jesus came only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. That Gentiles became proselytes as a result of this is in no way an indication of the Body of Christ. Why? Because there is still a distinction between Jew and Gentile in the Church of Israel.

    This is NOT true in the Body of Christ, for in the BOC, there is NO distinction between Jew or Gentile.

    including the 3000 at Pentecost and for example the Ekklesia at Ephesus.
    The 3000 that were saved (apart from being a contrast to the 3000 that were killed when the law was given to Israel back in the OT) became part of the church of Israel.

    “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.”Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common,and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved. - Acts 2:36-47 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...7&version=NKJV

    Let me ask you something, if you think this is describing the Body of Christ, please tell me:

    Why have you not sold all you have and why are you not living communally with other believers?

  9. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to JudgeRightly For Your Post:

    Right Divider (November 7th, 2018),steko (November 7th, 2018),Tambora (November 10th, 2018)

  10. #52
    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    On the road
    Posts
    7,349
    Thanks
    23,860
    Thanked 6,762 Times in 4,245 Posts

    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147602
    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings again Right Divider, And 3000 of these Jews repented and accepted Jesus as their Lord and Christ, and were baptised and joined the fellowship of the Apostles
    Had you stopped here, you would have been fine.

    As it were, though...

    and thus became part of the Body and Bride of Christ.
    This is what you have still yet to prove.

    But you cannot, because there is no support for it in the Bible. Sure, you could misinterpret what it says to show that.

    But if you read closely, and pay attention to what is said and to whom, rightly dividing the word, there is no way that you can make the scriptures say that the Bride is the Body.

    I find your favourite word “Churchianity” inappropriate.
    It's very appropriate.

  11. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to JudgeRightly For Your Post:

    Right Divider (November 7th, 2018),steko (November 7th, 2018),Tambora (November 10th, 2018)

  12. #53
    Over 500 post club
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    610
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 112 Times in 86 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    12242
    Greetings again JudgeRightly,
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    This is what you have still yet to prove. But you cannot, because there is no support for it in the Bible. Sure, you could misinterpret what it says to show that.
    But if you read closely, and pay attention to what is said and to whom, rightly dividing the word, there is no way that you can make the scriptures say that the Bride is the Body.
    I should imagine that there would be other examples, but I would like to hear from you how you rightly divide the word in the following:

    The following shows who Paul is speaking to, the believers at Ephesus:
    Ephesians 1:1 (KJV): Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

    In the following he speaks of them as the body of Christ:
    Ephesians 4:15-16 (KJV): 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

    In the following he speaks of them as the body and the bride of Christ:
    Ephesians 5:29-32 (KJV): 29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

  13. #54
    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    On the road
    Posts
    7,349
    Thanks
    23,860
    Thanked 6,762 Times in 4,245 Posts

    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147602
    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings again JudgeRightly, I should imagine that there would be other examples, but I would like to hear from you how you rightly divide the word in the following:

    The following shows who Paul is speaking to, the believers at Ephesus:
    Ephesians 1:1 (KJV): Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

    In the following he speaks of them as the body of Christ:
    Ephesians 4:15-16 (KJV): 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
    Everything above is talking about the Body.

    In the following he speaks of them as the body and the bride of Christ:
    Ephesians 5:29-32 (KJV): 29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
    Note:

    "We are members of his body", and then "a man shall . . . be joined to his wife, and they two shall be one flesh"

    A body is not joined to itself in marriage. A man's body is joined to his WIFE.

    If we are part of Christ's body, and Christ marries the church, then we cannot be part of the church, because we are Christ's body.

    Something else to note:

    The word used in Genesis 2 (which Paul is quoting here) for our word "one" (while the greek doesn't make the distinction), is the Hebrew word for "one of plural unity," "echad."

    Christ does not become the Bride of Christ. He is joined to her, that He and she are united.

    ----------

    Also, could you please use a different color other than blue in your posts? It's hard to read on a dark background (I'm using tapatalk in dark mode), and nearly impossible when I have my screen dimmed.

  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to JudgeRightly For Your Post:

    Right Divider (November 8th, 2018),steko (November 7th, 2018),Tambora (November 10th, 2018)

  15. #55
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    13,713
    Thanks
    11,241
    Thanked 19,145 Times in 10,784 Posts

    Blog Entries
    5
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147683

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings again Right Divider, And 3000 of these Jews repented and accepted Jesus as their Lord and Christ, and were baptised and joined the fellowship of the Apostles and thus became part of the Body and Bride of Christ. I find your favourite word “Churchianity” inappropriate.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
    The body of Christ had NOT come into existence yet. They knew nothing of the gospel of the grace of God, since it had NOT yet been revealed.

    You do, indeed, follow Churchianity and not what the Bible actually describes.

    For the manyth time, Peter did NOT preach the cross as GOOD NEWS in Acts 2.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  16. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Right Divider For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (November 7th, 2018),steko (November 7th, 2018),Tambora (November 10th, 2018)

  17. #56
    Over 500 post club
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    610
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 112 Times in 86 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    12242
    Greetings again JudgeRightly,
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Everything above is talking about the Body.
    I am glad that we agree here.
    Note: "We are members of his body", and then "a man shall . . . be joined to his wife, and they two shall be one flesh"
    A body is not joined to itself in marriage. A man's body is joined to his WIFE.
    If we are part of Christ's body, and Christ marries the church, then we cannot be part of the church, because we are Christ's body.
    Your logic here seems obscure. Paul is using two different figures. The first is the body of Christ, where he is the head and the believers are the body. He then uses the figure of marriage, where Christ is the bridegroom and the believers are the bride. So yes, the believers here are both the body and the bride.
    Something else to note: The word used in Genesis 2 (which Paul is quoting here) for our word "one" (while the greek doesn't make the distinction), is the Hebrew word for "one of plural unity," "echad."
    Christ does not become the Bride of Christ. He is joined to her, that He and she are united.
    I am not sure what you are saying and how this affects the previous comments, but yes, Jesus is not the bride, as he is the bridegroom. The two figures are here again interwoven in the example of Adam and Eve, as they were in effect one body, with Adam as the head, and Eve as the body, but we know how God achieved this, as Eve was taken out as a rib from Adam's body. The believers are also formed from the body of the crucified Jesus, and thus all believers are united with Christ as the body and bride of Christ.
    Also, could you please use a different color other than blue in your posts? It's hard to read on a dark background (I'm using tapatalk in dark mode), and nearly impossible when I have my screen dimmed.
    I like to distinguish the quotations of the Bible, and blue reminds me of the Word of God. Blue looks satisfactory on my tablet and PC, but I will keep this in mind for your tapatalk, possibly you may suggest the best colour. I suggest that we have exhausted our differences here though and I see no need to respond to Right Divider as he has not rightly divided, as he has not discerned (or judged) correctly (or rightly).

    Kind regards
    Trevor

  18. #57
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    13,713
    Thanks
    11,241
    Thanked 19,145 Times in 10,784 Posts

    Blog Entries
    5
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147683

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    I suggest that we have exhausted our differences here though and I see no need to respond to Right Divider as he has not rightly divided, as he has not discerned (or judged) correctly (or rightly).
    That's funny coming from someone that does not divide at all.

    I'm surprised that you're not out building an ark or tending a garden.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  19. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Right Divider For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (November 7th, 2018),steko (November 7th, 2018),Tambora (November 10th, 2018)

  20. #58
    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    On the road
    Posts
    7,349
    Thanks
    23,860
    Thanked 6,762 Times in 4,245 Posts

    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147602
    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings again JudgeRightly, I am glad that we agree here.
    Your logic here seems obscure.
    Christians are part of the Body of Christ, and Israel is the Bride of Christ, and Christ (who's "body" is His, and not His Bride's), marries the Bride.

    Paul is using two different figures.
    And you're cutting one of the figures in half and attributing one half to the other figure. In other words, wrongly dividing.

    The first is the body of Christ, where he is the head and the believers are the body. He then uses the figure of marriage, where Christ is the bridegroom and the believers are the bride. So yes, the believers here are both the body and the bride.
    Why are you dividing up a passage that makes perfect sense as is in the context that it is written in?

    No, the Body of Christ is NOT, nor has it EVER BEEN, the Bride of Christ. Nor has the Bride of Christ EVER BEEN the Body of Christ.

    There are two groups of believers, Trevor. There are the believers prior to Acts 9, who are ALL part of Israel, distinguished as JEWS or PROSELYTES (gentiles who have converted to being a Jew), AND there are believers (starting with Paul) who are individuals from ALL nations, including Israel, who are NO LONGER identified as either Jew OR Gentile.

    Paul, in the passage you quoted from Ephesians 5, is talking MAINLY about the Body of Christ.

    He then introduces the BRIDE (the church) and says that Christ (which includes His body) will be joined to the Bride.

    Christ has a body. And yes, that has a double meaning.

    Christ has a physical (glorified) body, that he tabernacled in during his 33 years on Earth.

    He ALSO has a figurative body, made up of those who believe He is Lord and that God raised Him from the dead (Romans 10:9).

    His BRIDE, shown throughout scripture as being God's chosen people, made up of twelve tribes, is the "Elect Lady."

    Christ, like what Adam said in Genesis, will join to His Bride.

    I am not sure what you are saying and how this affects the previous comments, but yes, Jesus is not the bride, as he is the bridegroom.
    His Body (aka Christians) is HIS, not his Bride's (aka Israel).

    The two figures are here again interwoven in the example of Adam and Eve, as they were in effect one body, with Adam as the head, and Eve as the body, but we know how God achieved this, as Eve was taken out as a rib from Adam's body.
    Which is a perfect description of how God brought out Israel from the rest of the world (aka all of Adam).

    The believers are also formed from the body of the crucified Jesus,
    Stop here for a sec.

    As I said above, there are TWO groups of believers shown in the Bible, specifically in Acts.

    There are the believers of the Kingdom Gospel.
    There are the believers of the Gospel of the Grace of God.

    The Kingdom believers are part of the BRIDE, part of national Israel, defined as JEWS.
    The Grace believers are Christ's BODY, not part of any nation, defined as NEITHER JEW NOR GENTILE.

    and thus all believers are united with Christ as the body and bride of Christ.
    In a sense, this is correct. BUT, and that's a huge but, the Body and the Bride do not merge into one large group, but they remain as distinct (yet unified) group, in God's kingdom.

    I like to distinguish the quotations of the Bible, and blue reminds me of the Word of God. Blue looks satisfactory on my tablet and PC, but I will keep this in mind for your tapatalk, possibly you may suggest the best colour. I suggest that we have exhausted our differences here though and I see no need to respond to Right Divider as he has not rightly divided, as he has not discerned (or judged) correctly (or rightly).

    Kind regards
    Trevor
    Putting it in the [BOX][/BOX] tags works really well for separating out scripture from the rest of your post. Plus, it doesn't actually render the box in Tapatalk, but it does leave the tags visible.

    I recommend using the box tags instead.

  21. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to JudgeRightly For Your Post:

    Right Divider (November 8th, 2018),steko (November 7th, 2018),Tambora (November 10th, 2018)

  22. #59
    Over 500 post club
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    610
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 112 Times in 86 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    12242
    Greetings again JudgeRightly,
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    As I said above, there are TWO groups of believers shown in the Bible, specifically in Acts.
    There are the believers of the Kingdom Gospel.
    There are the believers of the Gospel of the Grace of God.
    The Kingdom believers are part of the BRIDE, part of national Israel, defined as JEWS.
    The Grace believers are Christ's BODY, not part of any nation, defined as NEITHER JEW NOR GENTILE.
    I appreciate your reasonably thorough explanation of your perspective. I cannot accept this however as I believe in the One Gospel, comprising the things concerning the Kingdom of God and the things concerning the Name of Jesus Christ Acts 8:5-6,12 and Acts 28:30-31. Justification or salvation is by faith, an affectionate belief in this One Gospel Genesis 15:6 and Habakkuk 2:4.
    Putting it in the [BOX][/BOX] tags works really well for separating out scripture from the rest of your post. Plus, it doesn't actually render the box in Tapatalk, but it does leave the tags visible. I recommend using the box tags instead.
    I could try this when talking directly with you, or even trial 2 or 3 other colours, but I suggest that the majority can read my references, as it appears satisfactory on my tablet and PC. Possibly you cannot see the references above that this forum regenerates as hyperlinks in light blue. I only posted them in black. Have you tried changing your background from black to white?

    Kind regards
    Trevor

  23. #60
    Over 3000 post club turbosixx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,595
    Thanks
    179
    Thanked 295 Times in 259 Posts

    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    134750
    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    The church here are the believers in Christ who were promised entrance into the Kingdom on earth. The kingdom which is postponed and interrupted by our Dispensation of Grace.
    Before His death, Jesus said the kingdom was at hand and preached many times about it. Could please point out one of those passages that describes the kingdom on earth you believe was postponed? What I see Him describing is the church.
    Wretched man that I am.

  24. The Following User Says Thank You to turbosixx For Your Post:

    God's Truth (November 8th, 2018)

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 5 users browsing this thread. (2 members and 3 guests)

  1. Right Divider,
  2. turbosixx

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us