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Thread: Only Yahwah is a true God

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    Trinitarianism: What Non-Trinitarians Believe: http://christianforum.boards.net/thr...trinitarianism
    I'm not interested in going to another forum. I asked for a source, not someone's opinion.

    Show us the originals, or stop making the claim (because the onus is on you to support your stance) that scriptures have been "tampered with."

    Also, link dropping (especially to other forums) is not allowed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    I'm not interested in going to another forum. I asked for a source, not someone's opinion.

    Show us the originals, or stop making the claim (because the onus is on you to support your stance) that scriptures have been "tampered with."

    Also, link dropping (especially to other forums) is not allowed.
    Idiot! Love for the truth is not in you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    There is to much to list.
    I just want the original manuscripts. Is that too much to ask? Oh, those don't exist anymore? so then how do you expect me to believe you when you say that translations we have today are copies that don't say the same thing as the originals? Hmmm?

    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    Idiot!


    Sure, because calling me an idiot is going to solve your lack of original manuscripts.

    Love for the truth is not in you.
    Says the one who asserts something that is unprovable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    I was brought up in the trinity doctrine. Scriptures were tampered with to make people think God is a Trinity.
    We will have to agree to disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Hiya, where? Can you quote the chapter and verse please? Thanks
    2Cor 13:14 is one of many references to God : Father Son and Holy Spirit.
    I am fully convinced that God is a Trinity.
    I am not going to answer anymore anti-trinitarian posts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    I just want the original manuscripts. Is that too much to ask? Oh, those don't exist anymore? so then how do you expect me to believe you when you say that translations we have today are copies that don't say the same thing as the originals? Hmmm?



    Sure, because calling me an idiot is going to solve your lack of original manuscripts.



    Says the one who asserts something that is unprovable.

    Trinity Related


    1 John 5 NIV
    6 This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify: 8 the [a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

    Footnotes:
    [a] 1 John 5:8 Late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 8 And there are three that testify on earth: the (not found in any Greek manuscript before the fourteenth century)


    1 John 5 KJV
    7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

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    In the only codices which would be even likely to preserve an older reading, namely the Sinaitic Syriac and the oldest Latin Manuscript, the pages are GONE which contained the end of Matthew 28. Frederick Cornwallis Conybeare (1856 - 9 January 1924) Professor of Theology at the University of Oxford.

    Here is the oldest recorded document of Matthew 28:19.
    "The Demonstratio Evangelica" by Eusebius:

    Eusebius of Caesarea. 265 ? AD.– 337 ? AD.


    Eusebius was the Church historian and Bishop of Caesarea. On page 152 Eusebius quotes the early book of Matthew that he had in his library in Caesarea. Eusebius informs us of Yahshua's actual words to his disciples in the original text of Matthew 28:19.

    "With one word and voice He said to His disciples: "Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all...


    And again Eusebius for example, in Book III of his History, Chapter 5, Section 2, which is about the Jewish persecution of early Christians, we read:

    "But the rest of the disciples, who had been incessantly plotted against with a view to their destruction, and had been driven out of the land of Judea, went to all nations to preach the good news, relying upon the power of Christ, who had said to them, "Go ye and make disciples of all the nations in my name."


    And again, in his Oration in Praise of Emperor Constantine, Chapter 16, Section 8, we read:

    "What king or prince in any age of the world, what philosopher, legislator or prophet, in civilized or barbarous lands, has attained so great a height of excellence, I say not after death, but while living still, and full of mighty power, as to fill the ears and tongues of all mankind with the praises of his name?
    Surely none save our only Savior has done this, when, after his victory over death, he spoke these words to his followers, and fulfilled it by that event, saying to them, "Go ye and make disciples of all nations in my name."

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    1 John 5:7 implicitly states that all THREE are ONE.

    This is the only verse in the Bible that explicitly states that all three persons are one.
    Unfortunately, it was added to that verse.
    No earlier version includes that last phrase about them being one.

    The first 2 additions of Erasmus' master Greek text did not have this.
    Stunica (a Catholic authority) demanded that he include the phrase.
    Erasmus told Stunica that if he could provide one Greek manuscript with that phrase, he would include it.
    But no Greek manuscripts up to that time had it.
    Only Latin manuscripts had it. So Stunica had a Greek manuscript made up from the Latin and forced Erasmus to include it.

    In 1514, before Erasmus had even begun to edit his text, but its publication was delayed until 1522, until permission of Pope Leo X had finally been obtained for it.

    "The supreme Pontiff Leo X, Our Most Holy Father in Christ and Lord, desiring to favour this undertaking, sent from the apostolic library."

    This claim seems to have been accepted by all at that time.
    In view of its inclusion in the Clementine edition of the Latin Vulgate (1592), in 1897 the Holy Office in Rome, a high ecclesiastical congregation, made an authoritative pronouncement, approved and confirmed by Pope Leo XIII, that it is not safe to deny that this verse is an authentic part of St. John's Epistle."

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    Wrong interpretations and the distortion of God’s word is what supports the doctrine of the trinity.

    When asked, "Which is the most important commandment of all?" Jesus answered, "The most important of all the commandments is, hear, o Israel, the Lord our God is One." (Mark 12:29.)

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    Dude, you don't need all that formatting. Pretty sure there's an option on the desktop site to paste copied text as plain text.

    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    Trinity Related

    1 John 5 NIV
    Why am I not surprised you're using the NIV?

    6 This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify: 8 the [a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

    Footnotes:
    [a]1 John 5:8 Late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 8 And there are three that testify on earth: the (not found in any Greek manuscript before the fourteenth century)

    1 John 5 KJV
    7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
    Sure, use a known example of scripture that was most likely added by someone overzealous in his interpretation.

    Have you noticed that I have not once used 1 John 5:7-8 in my defence of the trinity? Haven't for a few months now. The above reason is why.

    There are plenty of other verses that show the trinity besides that one.

    Such as Genesis 1:1, John 1:1, Matthew 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14, etc.

    By the way, still waiting on those original manuscripts that show the Bible to have been tampered with...

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    Because KJV Rev 1:11 was found to be a corruption it is not included into other bibles.

    KJV Revelation 1:11. Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:

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    Christian Trinitarianism comes from Gnostic Pagans according to history.

    Matthew 11:11
    "I solemnly assure you, history has not known a man born of woman greater than John the Baptizer. Yet the least born into the Kingdom of God is greater than he. From John the Baptizer's time until now the kingdom of God has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force."


    After killing off the original Christians, the Pagan Christians proclaimed to be the true Christians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    In the only codices which would be even likely to preserve an older reading, namely the Sinaitic Syriac and the oldest Latin Manuscript, the pages are GONE which contained the end of Matthew 28. Frederick Cornwallis Conybeare (1856 - 9 January 1924) Professor of Theology at the University of Oxford.

    Here is the oldest recorded document of Matthew 28:19.
    "The Demonstratio Evangelica" by Eusebius:

    Eusebius of Caesarea. 265 ? AD.– 337 ? AD.


    Eusebius was the Church historian and Bishop of Caesarea. On page 152 Eusebius quotes the early book of Matthew that he had in his library in Caesarea. Eusebius informs us of Yahshua's actual words to his disciples in the original text of Matthew 28:19.

    "With one word and voice He said to His disciples: "Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all...


    And again Eusebius for example, in Book III of his History, Chapter 5, Section 2, which is about the Jewish persecution of early Christians, we read:

    "But the rest of the disciples, who had been incessantly plotted against with a view to their destruction, and had been driven out of the land of Judea, went to all nations to preach the good news, relying upon the power of Christ, who had said to them, "Go ye and make disciples of all the nations in my name."


    And again, in his Oration in Praise of Emperor Constantine, Chapter 16, Section 8, we read:

    "What king or prince in any age of the world, what philosopher, legislator or prophet, in civilized or barbarous lands, has attained so great a height of excellence, I say not after death, but while living still, and full of mighty power, as to fill the ears and tongues of all mankind with the praises of his name?
    Surely none save our only Savior has done this, when, after his victory over death, he spoke these words to his followers, and fulfilled it by that event, saying to them, "Go ye and make disciples of all nations in my name."
    WH
    19 πορευθεντες ουν μαθητευσατε παντα τα εθνη βαπτιζοντες αυτους εις το ονομα του πατρος και του υιου και του αγιου πνευματος
    19 poreuthentes oun matheteusate manta ta ethne baptizontes autous eis to onoma tou patros kai tou uiou kai tou agiou pneumatos
    19 [having gone] [therefore] [disciple] [all] [the] [nations] [baptizing] [them] [in] [the] [name] [of the] [Father] [and] [of the] [Son] [and] [of the] [Holy] [Spirit]

    NKJV
    Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, - Matthew 28:19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...9&version=NKJV

    Seems pretty accurate to me..

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    Because KJV Rev 1:11 was found to be a corruption it is not included into other bibles.

    KJV Revelation 1:11. Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:
    It's in my Bible, and in the WH...



    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    Christian Trinitarianism comes from Gnostic Pagans according to history.
    Matthew 11:11
    "I solemnly assure you, history has not known a man born of woman greater than John the Baptizer. Yet the least born into the Kingdom of God is greater than he. From John the Baptizer's time until now the kingdom of God has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force."


    After killing off the original Christians, the Pagan Christians proclaimed to be the true Christians.
    And instead of citing an authority on history, you link to your favorite forum.

    Why should I believe you again?

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    You really have to want to study the subject:
    https://www.answering-islam.org/Mna/trinity.html
    No man can come to God except through Christ. (Jn. 14:20)
    No man can come to Christ unless he comes through the Cross. (Jn. 3:16; Eph. 2:13–18)
    No man can come to the Cross without a denial of self. (Lk. 9:23–24)

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