User Tag List

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 54

Thread: Anti- Calvinists Ignore the Fall !

  1. #31
    Old Timer
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    480
    Thanks
    86
    Thanked 115 Times in 89 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    19129
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    You'll never convince a Calvinist of that. To them, man is so depraved he cannot even seek God, much less hear or respond to the Gospel. In fact, I've even heard them go so far as to say the unsaved HATE God, though they know Him not. Take a verse and twist it...quite the game.
    WOW! What scriptures do they twist to say such things about mankind?

  2. #32
    Old Timer
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    480
    Thanks
    86
    Thanked 115 Times in 89 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    19129
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Sin entered the world. Live in the world long enough without God, and you will eventually walk according to the course of the world.
    Very interesting! Some ideas spring to mind from what you say:

    - Some people live in the world with God until a certain age
    - Some people die at an age before they walk according to the course of the world
    - Is the age when people walk according to the course of the world different for different people or is it a standard age such as 7 or 13 or 65?
    - How can anyone not walk according to the course of the world?

    It would be helpful if you could give scriptures with your answers?

  3. #33
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    23,217
    Thanks
    14,336
    Thanked 36,722 Times in 18,328 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    97 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147800
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyStan View Post
    Very interesting! Some ideas spring to mind from what you say:

    - Some people live in the world with God until a certain age
    - Some people die at an age before they walk according to the course of the world
    - Is the age when people walk according to the course of the world different for different people or is it a standard age such as 7 or 13 or 65?
    God created us with a conscience to know right and wrong. Until a child reaches the age where he knowingly chooses the wrong over right, he is innocent.

    Matthew 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

    Once they choose wrongly, they have opened themselves up to worldly influences, to the lusts of the flesh and the pride of life.

    Psalm 139:13-16KJV Isaiah 7:16KJV

    - How can anyone not walk according to the course of the world?

    It would be helpful if you could give scriptures with your answers?
    Man's only hope is to be reconciled to God....from whence cometh our help.

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to glorydaz For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (November 3rd, 2018),steko (November 2nd, 2018),Tambora (November 8th, 2018)

  5. #34
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    23,217
    Thanks
    14,336
    Thanked 36,722 Times in 18,328 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    97 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147800
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyStan View Post
    WOW! What scriptures do they twist to say such things about mankind?
    Here is one of my favorites. They ignore the beauty and poetry a verse is written in (hyperbole), and claim it is literal..when it suits their needs concerning Total Depravity.

    Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to glorydaz For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (November 3rd, 2018),Tambora (November 8th, 2018)

  7. #35
    Over 500 post club ttruscott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    634
    Thanks
    79
    Thanked 37 Times in 29 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    17879
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    What law was Abel under that he would be guilty of sin?
    If he was not a sinner, he was not under the law of death...Jeremiah 31:30 Instead, each will die for his own iniquity. with Ezek 18:4, and so would not have died.

    Death proves sin. No holy elect angels will ever die.
    I Champion GOD’s holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

  8. #36
    Over 500 post club ttruscott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    634
    Thanks
    79
    Thanked 37 Times in 29 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    17879
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyStan View Post
    God is holy. God does not create evil people.
    AMEN! then HE did not create sinners by creating people as sinners, or with a sinful nature or any other euphemism for creating evil people in Adam's sin by inheritance or any other method by making them human.

    Guilt for sin can only accrue to those with the guilty intent (mens rea) to sin resulted in their choice to sin in HIS sight...not by being born human.

    Death proves sin and people die in the womb. They cannot have been created by a conception in the womb as evil so they can die from their sin, so when we read that Jesus sowed (NOT created as the devil sows also) the people of the kingdom into the world as sinners, we can rest assured that the inference that this means we came from somewhere else where we had sinned is not just possible but plausible. The verses are: Matt 13:36-39, the parable of the good seed not to be mixed up with the parable of the sower just before it...
    I Champion GOD’s holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

  9. #37
    Over 500 post club ttruscott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    634
    Thanks
    79
    Thanked 37 Times in 29 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    17879
    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    God says "yes" to the fertilization of an egg, resulting in conception of a human life. Because of Adam's sin, that zygote is already programmed with a corruption, a virus if you will, that is by nature evil in that the human will be a rebel against God.
    God is holy, but sin has affected all of His creation.
    HE was NOT FORCED to make us HUMAN IN ADAM!!! By forcing us to take on Adam's corrupt programming, HE forced us to be created as corrupt and evil!

    God is holy. God does not create evil people. !!!!

    ...especially since some of those people are to be HIS Bride! What possible reason could there be for HIM to make HIS Bride degraded and corrupt with a righteousness as filthy rags just to cure her and then marry her?? Did HE have a need to abase us before we were fit to marry HIM?

    Absurd isn't it. There isn't even a good bad reason for HIM to do this!
    I Champion GOD’s holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

  10. #38
    Over 500 post club ttruscott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    634
    Thanks
    79
    Thanked 37 Times in 29 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    17879
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyStan View Post
    Many theological permutations are possible from Rom5:12-19 and I will leave the fine tuning to the PHD's.
    The effects of Adam's sinning are obvious and easy enough to grasp(Eph2:1-3).
    Trust not to the PH Ds but seek GOD....if doctrine contradicts GOD is holy and will not create evil people then it is wrongly decided.

    Eph 2:1-3 sums up our sinful nature alright but it does NOT say we were made/created that way when it is obvious there can be no guilt unless the person chose to be sinful by their own free will.
    I Champion GOD’s holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

  11. #39
    Over 1500 post club
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    1,522
    Thanks
    140
    Thanked 174 Times in 149 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ttruscott View Post
    HE was NOT FORCED to make us HUMAN IN ADAM!!! By forcing us to take on Adam's corrupt programming, HE forced us to be created as corrupt and evil!

    God is holy. God does not create evil people. !!!!

    ...especially since some of those people are to be HIS Bride! What possible reason could there be for HIM to make HIS Bride degraded and corrupt with a righteousness as filthy rags just to cure her and then marry her?? Did HE have a need to abase us before we were fit to marry HIM?

    Absurd isn't it. There isn't even a good bad reason for HIM to do this!
    Adam's sin is inherited. In Matthew 25 it is referred to as "the curse." When humans are conceived, that corruption is passed on from Adam on down to the present.
    God could have created a new Adam and started all over again. God didn't. He, instead, chooses to reconcile some of Adams offspring to himself. This is the message from Genesis to Revelation.
    It is interesting that you hate God for having said "yes" to your own existence while knowing you were born with corruption. Do you wish that you had never been formed. Do you imagine you should have had your corruption corrected before being conceived? Could you be more ungrateful?

  12. #40
    Over 1500 post club
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    1,522
    Thanks
    140
    Thanked 174 Times in 149 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ttruscott View Post
    Trust not to the PH Ds but seek GOD....if doctrine contradicts GOD is holy and will not create evil people then it is wrongly decided.

    Eph 2:1-3 sums up our sinful nature alright but it does NOT say we were made/created that way when it is obvious there can be no guilt unless the person chose to be sinful by their own free will.
    Share the verse that says humans are created sinless and chose sin by their own free will. In fact, share where you find free will in the Bible.

  13. #41
    Over 500 post club ttruscott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    634
    Thanks
    79
    Thanked 37 Times in 29 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    17879
    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    Adam's sin is inherited. In Matthew 25 it is referred to as "the curse." When humans are conceived, that corruption is passed on from Adam on down to the present.
    God could have created a new Adam and started all over again. God didn't. He, instead, chooses to reconcile some of Adams offspring to himself. This is the message from Genesis to Revelation.
    You mean HE chose to create some people as evil against all HIS righteousness and the injustice in doing this to innocents who never chose evil.

    It is interesting that you hate God...
    your inference that I must hate GOD because I champion HIM as true to HIS nature and attributes that HE never created any evil person against HIS own righteousness and sense of perfect justice is pretty revealing about who may hate the righteous GOD that does NOT create evil people. What kind of people would rather believe that the GOD who is a spring of pure life giving water suddenly put forth poisonous water, that the tree of life giving fruit put forth rotten poisonous fruit and created evil people than believe we chose to be evil by our free will so that our becoming evil was by our own fault only! IF HE did create us evil in Adam, HE is a house divided... an impossibility.
    I Champion GOD’s holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

  14. #42
    Over 1500 post club
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    1,522
    Thanks
    140
    Thanked 174 Times in 149 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ttruscott View Post
    You mean HE chose to create some people as evil against all HIS righteousness and the injustice in doing this to innocents who never chose evil.

    your inference that I must hate GOD because I champion HIM as true to HIS nature and attributes that HE never created any evil person against HIS own righteousness and sense of perfect justice is pretty revealing about who may hate the righteous GOD that does NOT create evil people. What kind of people would rather believe that the GOD who is a spring of pure life giving water suddenly put forth poisonous water, that the tree of life giving fruit put forth rotten poisonous fruit and created evil people than believe we chose to be evil by our free will so that our becoming evil was by our own fault only! IF HE did create us evil in Adam, HE is a house divided... an impossibility.
    I mean...
    When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. ~ Romans 5:12
    God is clear on this, yet you seem unwilling to accept what God says.
    Why do you hate God?

  15. #43
    Over 500 post club ttruscott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    634
    Thanks
    79
    Thanked 37 Times in 29 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    17879
    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    I mean...
    When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. ~ Romans 5:12
    God is clear on this, yet you seem unwilling to accept what God says.
    Why do you hate God?
    And when did you quit beating your wife?

    FOR is
    1909. epi Strong's Concordance
    epi: on, upon
    Original Word: ἐπί
    Part of Speech: Preposition
    Definition: on, upon
    Usage: on, to, against, on the basis of, at.

    I know you'd rather read it 'because they received Adam's sin' but it does not say that: it say on the basis of their sin meaning because of their being sinners with NO CONNOTATION as to when they became sinners at all. Your theology taught you to think like this and to explain away how light creates darkness...how good creates evil.
    I Champion GOD’s holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

  16. #44
    Over 1500 post club
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    1,522
    Thanks
    140
    Thanked 174 Times in 149 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ttruscott View Post
    And when did you quit beating your wife?

    FOR is
    1909. epi Strong's Concordance
    epi: on, upon
    Original Word: ἐπί
    Part of Speech: Preposition
    Definition: on, upon
    Usage: on, to, against, on the basis of, at.

    I know you'd rather read it 'because they received Adam's sin' but it does not say that: it say on the basis of their sin meaning because of their being sinners with NO CONNOTATION as to when they became sinners at all. Your theology taught you to think like this and to explain away how light creates darkness...how good creates evil.
    What does a wife have to do with all people being born in sin due to Adam's fall?
    As for your attempt at pointing out a Greek preposition, the verse is still saying that we are born in sin.
    You must realize that your position was declared heresy when Augustine utterly destroyed Pelagius theories.
    https://www.monergism.com/augustine-and-pelagius

  17. #45
    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    On the road
    Posts
    7,443
    Thanks
    24,163
    Thanked 6,836 Times in 4,294 Posts

    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147603
    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    I mean...
    When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. ~ Romans 5:12
    God is clear on this, yet you seem unwilling to accept what God says.
    Why do you hate God?
    Asking loaded questions is bad form.

  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JudgeRightly For Your Post:

    Tambora (November 8th, 2018),ttruscott (November 4th, 2018)

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us