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Thread: SAME-SEX MARRIAGE: AGREE TO DISAGREE?

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    Exclamation SAME-SEX MARRIAGE: AGREE TO DISAGREE?

    Some pastors hold that same-sex marriage is a disputable matter as in Romans 14. Another term is itís a matter of indifference, or adiaphora.

    Some hold it is just too complicated of a matter and we should love others and allow them the freedom to do what they believe is right.

    What do you think?
    Contribute pros or cons to a discussion on same-sex marriage at Dialogos Studies. Simply Google "same-sex marriage Brownson Dialogos."

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    HOMOSEXUAL

    1 Cor 5:9-13
    9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people.
    10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
    11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner-- not even to eat with such a person.
    12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
    13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."
    James 1:13-16
    13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
    14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
    15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
    16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
    Gal 5:17
    17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
    Gal 5:19
    19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
    Gal 5:24
    24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
    1 Pet 2:19
    19 For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully.
    1 Pet 2:21-22
    21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
    22 "Who committed no sin, nor was deceit found in His mouth";
    James 4:5
    5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, "The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously"?
    James 4:7-8
    7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
    8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
    1 Cor 6:9-11
    9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
    10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
    11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
    1 Tim 1:8-10
    8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully,
    9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
    10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,
    Luke 17:28-30
    28 "Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built;
    29 "but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.
    30 "Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
    Titus 1:10-11
    10 For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,
    11 whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain.
    2 Pet 2:3
    3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.
    Rev 22:18-19
    18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
    19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
    (NKJ)

    xxxxThis is a revelation I received from the Holy Spirit. Like it or not this is what the bible says. You can look up every verse. Whether your a homosexual or not if you approve of it you could condemn yourself. Homosexuality is a sin.


    Rom 14:22
    22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
    (NKJ)

    James 2:26
    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
    (NKJ)


    2 Pet 3:9-13
    9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
    10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
    11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
    12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
    13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
    (NKJ)

    Rom 1:22-32
    22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
    23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man-- and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
    24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
    25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
    26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
    27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
    28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
    29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
    30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
    31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
    32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
    (NKJ)


    2 Pet 2:12-22
    12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,
    13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you,
    14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, beguiling unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children.
    15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
    16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
    17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
    18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.
    19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.
    20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
    21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
    22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."
    (NKJ)

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    That pretty much nails it! 1 Cor 5:9-13 is especially relevant for pastors who advocate permitting same-sex marriage.
    Contribute pros or cons to a discussion on same-sex marriage at Dialogos Studies. Simply Google "same-sex marriage Brownson Dialogos."

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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Scholten View Post
    That pretty much nails it! 1 Cor 5:9-13 is especially relevant for pastors who advocate permitting same-sex marriage.
    I said
    Any preacher who advocates same sex marriage is condemning themselves.

    [Rom 14:22
    [22] Do you have faith? Have [it] to yourself before God. Happy [is] he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

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    I have to agree with squeaky on this. Homosexual advocacy is a sin. To many have wandered from the truth on this matter.

    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. Romans 1:26-17
    Sherman
    June is Gay Pride Month.Tolerance and diversity? More like tolerate perversity.

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    Concerning Romans 1, some of these pastors claim that this passage only prohibits situations where one person forces another person to have sex. They say it does not prohibit situations for example where people who are born with same-sex attraction orientation from pursuing what is “natural” for them.
    At one time some churches used to the Bible to defend slavery. I think it is important for us to be able to give an answer for such claims as above. Some of these pastors are leading many people into thinking that loving, same-sex relations really are permitted by God. The challenge for the church today is to show clearly and without question just exactly what it is that Romans 1 and other passages prohibit.
    Contribute pros or cons to a discussion on same-sex marriage at Dialogos Studies. Simply Google "same-sex marriage Brownson Dialogos."

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    Some pastors are wolves in sheep clothing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyStan View Post
    Some pastors are wolves in sheep clothing!
    Yes, certainly one cannot help but wonder. However, the particular case I'm thinking of is one where a professor in a good seminary had a reputation for decades of being a good, solid biblical teacher. I received quite a few emails personally from former students of his who said he always required the highest of standards. Then this professor's son came to him and said that he was gay. The professor then spent five years studying the matter. He ultimately came to the conclusion that the church should accept same-sex marriages for monogamous, loving people who commit to a lifelong relationship.

    How do we know it is a matter of a wolf in sheep's clothing and not a matter of Galatians 6:1, "Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness."? These two are totally different situations and would require totally different responses.
    Thanks.
    Contribute pros or cons to a discussion on same-sex marriage at Dialogos Studies. Simply Google "same-sex marriage Brownson Dialogos."

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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Scholten View Post
    . . . Some of these pastors are leading many people into thinking that loving, same-sex relations really are permitted by God. The challenge for the church today is to show clearly and without question just exactly what it is that Romans 1 and other passages prohibit.
    That's the challenge for the 'evangelical' church. They are the ones who try to make the Bible alone their supreme pastor, and that goal requires biblical interpretation, and we all know that people can make the Bible say anything. What these same people uniformly deny, is that there is a college of authentic pastors, called the bishops, even though their founding is described and alluded to, throughout the New Testament epistles. And these authentic pastors teach authoritatively and Apostolically that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved," and that, "Homosexual persons are called to chastity." This, no matter what 'evangelicals' believe Romans 1, or any other scipture says on the matter. The bishops teach that, "Sacred Scripture . . . presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity."
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    . . . They close the sexual act to the gift of life."
    This is a digression here, but a worthwhile topic. As far as a consideration of the validity of the bishops goes, when they close the sexual act to the gift of life, doesn't that mean that once a couple is too advanced in age to have children they need to stop making love? It seems to me that goes against I Cor. 7:9, "But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion." It seems like this is true for a 60 year old person, too, if their spouse dies. Better to remarry than to burn. Personally I think we need to hold to the Bible as the final authority. All humans are fallen creatures.
    Contribute pros or cons to a discussion on same-sex marriage at Dialogos Studies. Simply Google "same-sex marriage Brownson Dialogos."

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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Scholten View Post
    This is a digression here, but a worthwhile topic. As far as a consideration of the validity of the bishops goes, when they close the sexual act to the gift of life, doesn't that mean that once a couple is too advanced in age to have children they need to stop making love? It seems to me that goes against I Cor. 7:9, "But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion." It seems like this is true for a 60 year old person, too, if their spouse dies. Better to remarry than to burn. Personally I think we need to hold to the Bible as the final authority. All humans are fallen creatures.
    Good insight. For their part, the bishops teach about "the inseparable connection, established by God, which man on his own initiative may not break, between the unitive significance and the procreative significance which are both inherent to the marriage act." The 'unitive significance and the procreative significance' both, are assaulted both by homosexual acts, and by heterosexual acts which are deliberately contrary to procreation. While an older married couple may not be any longer capable of procreation, their marriage act ought still to be open to the gift of life, which is how most particularly the married couple is united together, and becomes 'one flesh.'
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Scholten View Post
    Concerning Romans 1, some of these pastors claim that this passage only prohibits situations where one person forces another person to have sex. They say it does not prohibit situations for example where people who are born with same-sex attraction orientation from pursuing what is “natural” for them.
    At one time some churches used to the Bible to defend slavery. I think it is important for us to be able to give an answer for such claims as above. Some of these pastors are leading many people into thinking that loving, same-sex relations really are permitted by God. The challenge for the church today is to show clearly and without question just exactly what it is that Romans 1 and other passages prohibit.
    I said
    Well them people lied to you.
    26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
    27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
    28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

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    I cannot accept,"situations for example where people who are born with same-sex attraction orientation from pursuing what is “natural” for them."
    I think people today are trying to justify behaviour on the ground of DNA, 'its in my genes'.
    I cannot find any support whatsoever for same sex relationships or marriage in scripture.
    I know people who were anti gay marriage but changed their mind when they met someone who was gay.
    Pastors are wrong to allow their personal feelings override the truth of scripture.
    Pastors are called to teach scripture not their private opinions.

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    "Same sex marriage" proponents's agenda, is not "rights;" their agenda, cutting through all the neurons, ropes, yarn, strings, nests, fog, shucking the smoke ' mirrors, is demanding others's approval.


    In the "modern" English-that ain't happening, at least from me. Saint John W I am.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Scholten View Post
    Some pastors hold that same-sex marriage is a disputable matter as in Romans 14. Another term is it’s a matter of indifference, or adiaphora.
    "Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate." (Mark 10:9)

    There is no biblical example of God joining two persons of the same sex.

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