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Thread: Calvin-ism Leads to Heaven!

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    A nice tactic that overlooks the plain fact that once you start summarizing what you think Scripture teaches, you are doing man-made work. You even went so far as to provide another man's efforts to support your "man-made" vs. "Just Me and My Bible" cavil. The statement to the effect "I do not follow the works of man, but only the Bible" is actually a man-made statement, a self-refuting statement of what has just been claimed. If you were actually honest about such a claim you would never post anything in a discussion site except direct quotations from Scripture. Of course, the discerning see the nonsense of this. Irony abounds and your desire to be your own pope is made clear.

    TULIP is an acrostic created by a nineteenth century pastor as a memory aid to describe summaries of the doctrines of grace from Scripture. These doctrines of grace were summarized at Dordt in response to the actual points made by the Remonstrants. Calvin did not invent TULIP. In fact, he had been dead for around 50 years by the time of the convening of Dordt to respond to the Remonstrants.

    The Scripture support for the doctrines of grace summaries contained with TULIP are manifold. To claim something is man-made and somehow irrelevant to discussions concerning doctrine is an amateur's mistake.

    Spoiler

    To me, the teachings of Scripture are absolutely and unmistakably clear about the fundamental aspects of our salvation:

    (1) sinners are utterly helpless to redeem themselves or to contribute anything meritorious toward their own salvation (Romans 8:7-8);
    (2) God is sovereign in the exercise of His saving will (Ephesians 1:4-5);
    (3) Jesus Christ's substitutionary death on behalf of His people bore the full weight of God's wrath on behalf of His people, and Jesus Christ's atoning work alone is efficacious for the salvation of His people (Isaiah 53:5);
    (4) the saving purpose of God cannot be thwarted (John 6:37), thus none of Jesus Christ's true sheep will ever be lost (John 10:27-29), because
    (5) the perseverance of Jesus Christ's elect are assured by God (Jude 24; Philemon 1:6; 1 Peter 1:5).


    TOTAL DEPRAVITY (Radical Corruption) - "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?? (Jer 17:9)
    Man has a will and his will is in bondage to his nature. The will of man is free to choose according to the dictates of his nature, but it is not free to contradict his nature. From Adam's fall the nature of every man has been sinful. Therefore, every action of the unsaved man is sinful and rebellious; it is stained through and through by his sin nature. The unregenerate man cannot perform even one single righteous or pleasing work with respect to a holy God, for their actions are wrongly motivated, that is, not for the glory of God, and are but filthy rags in the eyes of God.

    See: Genesis 6:5, Genesis 8:19, Genesis 8:21, Jeremiah 17:9, Psalm 22:29, Psalm 51:5, Psalm 58:3, Psalm 130:3, Psalm 143:2, Proverbs 20:9, Job 14:4, Job 15:14-16, Ecclesiastes 7:20, Ecclesiastes 7:29, Ecclesiastes 9:3, Isaiah 53:6, Isaiah 64:6-7, Jeremiah 13:23, Jeremiah 17:9, 2 Chronicles 6:36, John 3:3, John 3:19, John 6:44, John 6:65, John 8:44, Romans 3:9-18, Romans 5:12, Romans 5:18-19, Romans 6:20, Romans 7:18, Romans 7:23-24, Romans 8:7-8, 1 Corinthians 2:14, Ephesians 2:1-3, Ephesians 4:18, 2 Timothy 2:26-26, 1 John 3:4, 1 John 3:10, 1 John 5:19, Titus 3:3

    UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION (Sovereign Election) Ė ď... though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad, in order that Godís purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls..Ē (Rom 9:11)
    Godís election is truly unconditional. The foreknowledge of God is based upon His decree, plan, and purpose; it is the expression of His will and good pleasure, not a response to man's free-will choices. Election is the sovereign act of God the Father choosing specific individuals out from the entire body of condemned and fallen humanity. These individuals were chosen before the foundations of the universe and not as a result of any foreseen merit or activity or decision on their part. These chosen or elect individuals are purposed to become monuments to the Father's love for all of eternity. In this regard it is understood election is an example of Godís "love before time."

    See: Deuteronomy 7:6-8, Deuteronomy 10:14-15, Lamentations 5:21, Isaiah 55:11, Amos 3:2, Jeremiah 1:5, Matthew 7:23, Matthew 24:22-24, Matthew 24:31, Luke 12:6-7, John 6:37-39, John 6:44, John 6:65, John 15:16, John 17:19, Acts 2:23, Acts 11:18, Acts 13:48, Acts 17:26, Acts 18:27, Romans 8:28-39, Romans 9:11-16, Romans 11:5, 1 Corinthians 1:26-31, 1 Corinthians 8:3, Ephesians 1:1-14, Ephesians 2:4-10, 1 Thessalonians 1:4-5, 1 Thessalonians 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, Philippians 1:29, Philippians 2:12-13, 1 Timothy 5:21, 2 Timothy 1:9-10, 2 Timothy 2:19, 2 Timothy 2:25, 1 Peter 1:1-2, 1 Peter 1:4-5, 1 Peter 1:20, 2 Peter 1:5-11

    LIMITED ATONEMENT (Particular Redemption) - "...you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." (Matt 1:21)
    In order to accomplish the specific will of the Father, Christ took to the Cross the sins of the elect. Christ died for the sins of men without distinction as to race or nationality (that is, Jew or Gentile) that no man can number. He provided a complete and effectual atonement for their sins. Those whom Christ redeemed, Christ really and truly redeemed (actual not potential). Though infinite in value, Christ's atoning work was specific in its design. Some prefer to call this "definite atonement" or "particular redemption". The death of Christ at Calvary does not make men savable, but rather it saves men completely. The Cross is a completed, successful work that requires no assistance from man. Christ died for all of the sins of the elect. Other views of the scope of the atonement must avoid the idea of all the sins lest these views proclaim a universal salvation. For, if Christ died for all of the sins of all men without exception, upon what basis would any man be denied heaven? Remember, unbelief is a sin and therefore a sin for which Christ died if He has truly died for all the sins of all men without exception.

    See: Psalm 34:22, Isaiah 53:8, Matthew 1:21, Matthew 20:28, Matthew 26:28, Luke 1:68, Luke 2:1-2, Luke 19:10, John 3:16 (the Father gave His Son for whom? - according to this verse the Son was given for whoever believes in Him (the believing ones) not for the ones not believing in Him), John 5:13, John 6:35-40, John 10:11, John 10:14 -18, John 10:24-29, John 12:32, John 17:1-11, John 17:20, John 17:24-26, Acts 20:28, Romans 5:8-10, Romans 5:18, Romans 8:32-34, Galatians 3:13, Ephesians 1:3-4, Ephesians 1:7, Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 2:15-16, Ephesians 5:25-27, Hebrews 2:9, Hebrews 2:17, Hebrews 3:1, Hebrews 9:12, Hebrews 9:28, Hebrews 10:14, Colossians 1:21-22, 2 Corinthians 5:14-15, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19, 1 Timothy 1:15, 2 Timothy 2:4-6, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 John 2:1-2, 1 John 4:14, Titus 2:14, Revelation 5:9.

    IRRESISTIBLE GRACE (Effectual Election) - "...those whom he called he also justified?" (Rom 8:30)
    The Holy Spirit, in agreement with the electing will of the Father and the atoning work of the Son, does in the fullness of time quicken the dead spirit of a man and give to him the gift of saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. The logical order of salvation is regeneration first, followed by faith/believing. Since dead men do not respond, God must make them alive first (Eph 2:4-5); regeneration, of necessity, precedes any action or activity on the part of man, including faith and repentance. Hence, every single individual upon whom the Spirit of God moves savingly is regenerated, born again, adopted, grafted in, and saved eternally. This saving grace is not coercion. Rather, by transforming the heart, this grace makes the believer wholly willing to trust and obey.

    See: Deuteronomy 30:6, Isaiah 55:7, Ezekiel 11:19-20, Ezekiel 18:23, Ezekiel 36:26-27, John 1:12-13 but of God, John 1:12-13, John 3:3-8, John 5:21, John 5:24 - the perfect tense verb reads has already passed from death unto life, John 6:37-39, John 6:38, John 10:16, John 11:14-15, John 11:25, John 11:38-44 , John 17:2, Acts 2:38, Acts 5:31, Acts 11:18, Acts 13:48, Acts 16:14, Acts 17:30, Acts 18:27, Romans 8:8, Romans 8:28-30, Romans 8:32, Romans 9:16, Galatians 6:15, Ephesians 1:3, Ephesians 1:7, Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 2:1-10, Philippians 1:29, Philippians 2:12-13, 1 Corinthians 4:7, 1 Corinthians 6:11, 1 Corinthians 12:3, 2 Corinthians 3:6, 2 Corinthians 3:17, 2 Corinthians 5:17-18, Colossians 2:13, James 1:18, 2 Timothy 2:25, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 1:2-3, 1 Peter 1:23, 1 John 5:1 - a perfect tense verb used here and reads has already been born of God, 1 John 3:7, 1 John 5:4.

    PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS (The Preservation of The Saints) - "...those whom he justified he also glorified." (Rom 8:30)
    Since God is the Author and Finisher of our faith, man cannot fall away from eternal salvation. Once a man has been born-again he cannot be unborn-again. Furthermore, the elect of God will definitely manifest evidences of their salvation by means of good works. The elect shall, by the grace of God and without exception, ultimately persevere in righteousness. The eternal security of the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ is demonstrated by the persevering faith and righteousness wrought by the grace of God in His little begotten ones.

    See: Isaiah 43:1-3, Jeremiah 32:40, John 3:16, John 3:36, John 5:24, John 6:35-40, John 6:47, John 6:51, John 10:27-30, John 11:25, John 14:21, John 15:1-11, John 17:12, John 17:15, Romans 8:29-30, Romans 8:35-39, Ephesians 1:5, Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 2:10 God's workmanship, Ephesians 4:30, Hebrews 5:11-6:12, Philippians 1:6, Philippians 2:12-13, Philippians 3:12-15, 1 Corinthians 1:8 , 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, 2 Timothy 1:12, 2 Timothy 4:18, 1 Peter 1:3-5, 1 Peter 1:23, 1 Peter 5:10, 2 Peter 2:10, 1 John 2:19, 1 John 2:25, 1 John 3:9, 1 John 5:13, 1 John 5:18, Jude 24-25.


    AMR
    Well the irony is your creeds were all opinions gleaned by men from reading the scriptures, so your point is the pot calling the kettle black, you do the same thing your complaining about "You even went so far as to provide another man's efforts to support" just like we all do, the reformation happened because of a man's work (evaluating scripture) forming a contrary opinion to the corrupt church systems elitist arrogance, Calvin was a man also right AMR?
    Trying to awaken the divine principle in the belly of the fish.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
    ...Calvin was a man also right AMR?
    Who has disagreed? I assume there is a pony in there somewhere, no?

    AMR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Why the strange "qualification" and the DOTS?
    Quoting the pertinent parts of the Magisterium's authorized teaching on the matter is all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Can't you just speak plainly?
    Plainly then: The college of Catholic bishops together teach that all those who believe in Christ are Christians, full stop.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Already posted, deceiver.
    With the plainest language, we've seen that the King James Bible teaches that Christ's Resurrection is the sine qua non of the one Christian faith, and that believing in Christ, is tantamount to believing in His Resurrection.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    Quoting the pertinent parts of the Magisterium's authorized teaching on the matter is all.
    Plainly then: The college of Catholic bishops together teach that all those who believe in Christ are Christians, full stop.
    "the Magisterium's authorized teaching"
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    "the Magisterium's authorized teaching"
    Yes, in contrast to all the other 'Christian' UN-authorized teaching in the world. Go on, and yuck it up.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    Yes, in contrast to all the other 'Christian' UN-authorized teaching in the world. Go on, and yuck it up.
    I think I'll stick to "God-authored" teaching, rather than "man-authorized" teaching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    I think I'll stick to "God-authored" teaching, rather than "man-authorized" teaching.
    What if God authorized certain men to teach His truth authoritatively?

    No dilemma required.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    What if God authorized certain men to teach His truth authoritatively?
    Certain men? What, you mean like the guy you were just talking about?

    No, God authorized the teaching of his word by groups of people (such as pastors, bishops, and deacons). He did not authorize those people to interpret His word however they wanted to.

    No dilemma required.
    Saying it doesn't make it so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    Yes, in contrast to all the other 'Christian' UN-authorized teaching in the world. Go on, and yuck it up.
    The authorized teaching does not belong to your man-made organization.

    Every member of the body of Christ has equal authority to read and understand the Word of God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    What if God authorized certain men to teach His truth authoritatively?
    He didn't. So there goes your case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    No dilemma required.
    Indeed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    The authorized teaching does not belong to your man-made organization.

    Every member of the body of Christ has equal authority to read and understand the Word of God.
    That's why it's so important for members of the Body of Christ to pray for guidance before reading God's written Word, the Bible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    The authorized teaching does not belong to your man-made organization.
    It 'belongs' to the Church's bishops.
    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Every member of the body of Christ has equal authority to read and understand the Word of God.
    You don't even acknowledge the whole Word of God. You only acknowledge the Old Testament (not even the whole Old Testament; you're missing seven books) and the Apostolic Tradition that was committed to writing within the Apostolic age, which is only part of the whole Word of God, which includes the whole Apostolic witness, and not just what we find in the New Testament.

    For example, that abortion is sin is explicitly Apostolic, as is the Trinity, but you don't receive that; you can only conjecture and extrapolate from the Bible. You starve yourself rather than eat from the bounty that the Apostles left us, both by their writings and authorized writings done on their behalf (Sacred Scripture), and through their word-of-mouth teachings that have been handed down to the Church's episcopacy, and which they now share with the whole world in the 'Catechism of the Catholic Church' (Sacred Tradition).
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Certain men? What, you mean like the guy you were just talking about?
    I mean the Church's ordained bishops.
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    No, God authorized the teaching of his word by groups of people (such as pastors, bishops, and deacons). He did not authorize those people to interpret His word however they wanted to.
    The Church's authentic pastors don't do that. In fact, it's not that the Magisterium has the authority to 'interpret' the Scriptures at all; they relay what the Apostles actually said on all matters of faith and morals. It's the Protestants who 'interpret,' in order to arrive at their own preferred man-made made up 'Christian' teachings. Everything that the Church's episcopal office teaches authoritatively on matters of faith and morals is Apostolic, not 'authoritatively interpreted.'
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Saying it doesn't make it so.
    Of course not. I've supported it.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    He didn't. So there goes your case.
    I've got scriptures that indicate otherwise, and tell another tale. He didn't just commission His Apostles, and then once they died, we're stuck with only what they themselves wrote down, and what was written within their lifetimes, and was subsequently authorized by them (the New Testament). His Apostles consecrated successors by the imposition of their own hands, the bishops/overseers/elders, whose job it is to teach the Church. The whole Word of God is the whole Old Testament, plus the New Testament, plus the Apostolic teachings that were not committed to writing during their lifetimes. We have a bounty of Apostolic witness from which to draw, and you starve yourselves by limiting it only to what was committed to writing in the Apostolic age.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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