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Thread: Calvinism Is The Gospel, So Only Believers Of Calvinism Are Saved.

  1. #376
    Over 4000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    The wages of sin is a physical death.
    Absolutely. That's the meaning of the word "death." There isn't any other type of death unless you want to extend the meaning to metaphor.

    How do you get that when they are raised to it?
    The righteous are raised to eternal life. The wicked are raised to everlasting contempt: they are judged, sentenced, and punished by with the wages of their sin. Famous scripture, "the wages of sin are death." If the contempt was ever to be lifted then the punishment would also need to be lifted. Since the contempt is everlasting this also agrees with the eternal duration of the punishment (death.)

    Are you just confused or are you trying to confuse the Reader? They are raised to everlasting contempt and it is eternal.
    It would hazard that you were already confused before we ever spoke: taking a clear passage that contrasts "everlasting life" vs "everlasting contempt" and reading it as if it said "everlasting life" on both sides speaks confusion. It would be nice if this would clear up... but I suspect that you might value the "eternal conscious life in torment" too strongly. But maybe not.

    I have no idea what you are talking about it. It sounds like you are desperate and making up things.
    "Everlasting life for the wicked" would be making things up. Jesus clearly said that everlasting life was a gift (not an innate possession) and it was only given to the righteous that believe on him. Was Jesus mistaken? John 3:16?

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    TOL Legend God's Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Absolutely. That's the meaning of the word "death." There isn't any other type of death unless you want to extend the meaning to metaphor.

    The righteous are raised to eternal life. The wicked are raised to everlasting contempt: they are judged, sentenced, and punished by with the wages of their sin. Famous scripture, "the wages of sin are death." If the contempt was ever to be lifted then the punishment would also need to be lifted. Since the contempt is everlasting this also agrees with the eternal duration of the punishment (death.)

    It would hazard that you were already confused before we ever spoke: taking a clear passage that contrasts "everlasting life" vs "everlasting contempt" and reading it as if it said "everlasting life" on both sides speaks confusion. It would be nice if this would clear up... but I suspect that you might value the "eternal conscious life in torment" too strongly. But maybe not.

    "Everlasting life for the wicked" would be making things up. Jesus clearly said that everlasting life was a gift (not an innate possession) and it was only given to the righteous that believe on him. Was Jesus mistaken? John 3:16?
    Waking is not death, and everlasting isn't an end.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

  3. #378
    Over 4000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Waking is not death, and everlasting isn't an end.
    If you cannot respond coherently than it might be better not to respond at all.

  4. #379
    TOL Legend God's Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    If you cannot respond coherently than it might be better not to respond at all.
    It is simple. The scripture says some will WAKE to everlasting contempt.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

  5. #380
    Over 4000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    It is simple. The scripture says some will WAKE to everlasting contempt.
    Congratulations, you have discovered the resurrection to the judgment. Now what happens to those who receive that everlasting contempt?

    Revelation 20:14-15 KJV
    (14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    (15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

  6. #381
    TOL Legend God's Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Congratulations, you have discovered the resurrection to the judgment. Now what happens to those who receive that everlasting contempt?

    Revelation 20:14-15 KJV
    (14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    (15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
    I have been explaining that to you all along.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

  7. #382
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    That was one funny movie!

    "The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name." Exodus 15:3

  8. #383
    Over 4000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    I have been explaining that to you all along.
    No, you've been saying quite the opposite, that the resurrection of the unjust is to eternal life rather than eternal condemnation. If one has eternal life cannot die any more, but the wicked dead are raised to judgment and die the second time as well.

    Luke 20:35-36 KJV
    (35) But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
    (36) Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

    Revelation 20:5-6 KJV
    (5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    (6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    "The wicked are raised to eternal life?" I don't think so. Eternal life is a gift for those that believe on Christ, but the wicked shall perish and die the second death. GT, if you've come about and we see eye to eye on this then that is good (just say so?) but otherwise you should explain why you are saying that other than simply continually repeating an unsupported assertion.

    John 3:16 KJV
    (16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Perish is on one side, everlasting life is on the other. The wicked are raised to judgment and everlasting contempt and shall perish in the second death. Those raised in Christ are raised to everlasting life and shall be like the angels and shall never die any more. These are two extreme polar opposites: to assign eternal life to the wicked denies not only the words of Christ but the theme of the entire scripture.

  9. #384
    LIFETIME MEMBER meshak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    John 3:16 KJV
    (16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Perish is on one side, everlasting life is on the other. The wicked are raised to judgment and everlasting contempt and shall perish in the second death. Those raised in Christ are raised to everlasting life and shall be like the angels and shall never die any more. These are two extreme polar opposites: to assign eternal life to the wicked denies not only the words of Christ but the theme of the entire scripture.
    Do you know that many saved Christians believe wicked live in burning hell fire for eternity?
    If you want to be true to God and Jesus, abandon any kind of violence at all cost. By advocating any kind of violence, you are misrepresenting Christianity.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    Do you know that many saved Christians believe wicked live in burning hell fire for eternity?
    of course they do.

    Revelation 20:11-15 King James Version (KJV)
    11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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  12. #386
    LIFETIME MEMBER meshak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    of course they do.

    Revelation 20:11-15 King James Version (KJV)
    11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
    I was talking to Rosen.
    If you want to be true to God and Jesus, abandon any kind of violence at all cost. By advocating any kind of violence, you are misrepresenting Christianity.

  13. #387
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    I was talking to Rosen.
    These are OPEN forums.

    If you want a private conversation, use PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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  15. #388
    Over 4000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    Do you know that many saved Christians believe wicked live in burning hell fire for eternity?
    I suspect that belief is the only reason why GT is arguing that the wicked are raised to eternal life.

  16. #389
    Over 4000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    of course they do.

    Revelation 20:11-15 King James Version (KJV)
    11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
    ... seems like a type of blindness: to somehow read a clear scripture that identifies death and say that this is everlasting life.

    Now if that passage said "this is the second life" then I might understand his point. Unfortunately, it says absolutely the opposite of what he indicated.

    @Bright Raven, do you have any passage that says that God gives eternal life to the wicked? Because we have quite a few scriptures that tell us that eternal life is only for those that believe in Christ, that is a gift, and that the wicked shall perish, be burnt up, become ashes, die the second death, be consumed as the fat of lambs, and so on and so forth.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    ... seems like a type of blindness: to somehow read a clear scripture that identifies death and say that this is everlasting life.

    Now if that passage said "this is the second life" then I might understand his point. Unfortunately, it says absolutely the opposite of what he indicated.

    @Bright Raven, do you have any passage that says that God gives eternal life to the wicked? Because we have quite a few scriptures that tell us that eternal life is only for those that believe in Christ, that is a gift, and that the wicked shall perish, be burnt up, become ashes, die the second death, be consumed as the fat of lambs, and so on and so forth.
    Matthew 25:41 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

    Matthew 25:46 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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