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Thread: Calvinism Is The Gospel, So Only Believers Of Calvinism Are Saved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    According to Charles Spurgeon, Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else.

    Since Calvinism is the gospel, every person who does not believe Calvinism is a person who does not believe the gospel. And, every person who has never believed the gospel is a person who has never been saved. So, unless you have believed Calvinism, you have never been saved.
    You are truly confused. Show us where the Bible says that Calvinism is the Gospel. Jesus is the Gospel. It is only through Him that we are saved, not through some fabricated formula called TULIP.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    You are truly confused. Show us where the Bible says that Calvinism is the Gospel. Jesus is the Gospel. It is only through Him that we are saved, not through some fabricated formula called TULIP.
    He agrees with you. That is why he said "According to Charles Spurgeon".
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    According to Charles Spurgeon, Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else.
    Asked and answered:
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5279630

    Then again, you do have issues with doing some heavy-lifting, taking every word captive, instead preferring to quote-mine and opine while ignoring context or an author's full corpus:

    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5281715

    Using your methods, one can make just about anyone say anything, despite the meaninglessness therein.

    AMR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    You are truly confused. Show us where the Bible says that Calvinism is the Gospel. Jesus is the Gospel. It is only through Him that we are saved, not through some fabricated formula called TULIP.
    You also teach that sinners Christ died for are lost!

    Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    AMR
    One of the two, following propositions MUST be true, and the other MUST be false, as they are contradictories:

    1. Spurgeon, when he said "Calvinism is the gospel," meant that Calvinism is the gospel.
    2. Spurgeon, when he said "Calvinism is the gospel," did not mean that Calvinism is the gospel.


    Now, Professor, which of those two propositions is the true one, and which one is the false one?

    One of the two, following propositions MUST be true, and the other MUST be false, as they are contradictories:

    1. Calvinism is the gospel.
    2. Calvinism is not the gospel.

    Now, Professor, which of those two propositions is the true one, and which one is the false one?

    Non-Calvinists have no trouble at all openly declaring that 1 is false, and that 2 is true. Conversely, as a Calvinist, why should you have any trouble at all about openly declaring that 1 is true, and that 2 is false?

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    You also teach that sinners Christ died for are lost!
    So do you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    One of the two, following propositions MUST be true, and the other MUST be false, as they are contradictories:

    1. Spurgeon, when he said "Calvinism is the gospel," meant that Calvinism is the gospel.2. Spurgeon, when he said "Calvinism is the gospel," did not mean that Calvinism is the gospel.

    Now, Professor, which of those two propositions is the true one, and which one is the false one?

    One of the two, following propositions MUST be true, and the other MUST be false, as they are contradictories:

    1. Calvinism is the gospel.2. Calvinism is not the gospel.

    Now, Professor, which of those two propositions is the true one, and which one is the false one?
    As I stated quite clearly...if you will actually digest the content...
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5279630

    The Gospel is more than just what folks consider Calvinism, TULIP. See my comments, esp. "warp and woof".

    "The quote you are alluding to speaks to the fact that unless one preaches the things that are the warp and woof of the gospel, the gospel is simply not being preached."

    Spurgeon certainly understood the cautionary of assuming Calvinism is merely TULIP. When he used "gospel" he was aligned with what I also noted and linked above:
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5076158

    Your penchant to lift some quote and make hay from it is embarrassing to you. Again, I clearly answered your hobby horse question:
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5279630 with an accompanying affirmative based upon that post's content (that means "yes").

    You don't do theology by yes and no questions until you have defined the theological terms properly. Theologians are something like grammarians than like scientists or detectives. Such theologians show us (from the Bible) how to think, and how not to think, about God, and thusly how to talk about Him. What we should say, and what we should not say. Theologians do not control what we may say; they indicate the rules of intelligible speech.

    Systematic theology is a fence that guards our exegesis from error. If our systematic theology actually comes from the organic unfolding progressive nature of Scripture, then it will not be a straight-jacket, but rather the fence that keeps the children from going out into the dangerous road.

    AMR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Asked and answered:
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5279630

    Then again, you do have issues with doing some heavy-lifting, taking every word captive, instead preferring to quote-mine and opine while ignoring context or an author's full corpus:

    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5281715

    Using your methods, one can make just about anyone say anything, despite the meaninglessness therein.

    AMR
    You never answered a single question I asked you, so, when you say that you did, you are either deluded or lying. I don't deny that you reacted to some of my questions, but you answered none.

    About one thing, however, you are exactly right:

    My method is to ask you questions which necessarily damn Calvinism while embarrassing you, Calvinism's would-be defender. And, by applying that method, it seems I can, indeed, make you say just about anything, with the exception of answers to the questions I ask you! Every time I ask Calvinism a question, you refuse to answer it--you refuse to try to defend Calvinism--and, instead, you try to bury me under a full corpus of meaninglessness, which you use as a smokescreen, in hope of diverting attention from the questions you (of necessity) fail to answer.

    By the way, I don't believe that you, yourself, have read all, or even most, of the literature that you self-righteously cavil at others for not having read all of, and it's actually pitiful that you would imagine it plausible for you to try to imply that you have done so. I've seen that ploy used many times, and every time it is used, it is used because the one using it is painfully aware that he/she cannot, to his/her own satisfaction (let alone, to the objector's satisfaction), deal with the questions he/she is, at that moment, called upon to try to answer. If you could think well on your feet when it comes to trying to defend Calvinism, you would simply have no need for such ploys as trying to direct attention away from the questions that were asked you.

    So, back to the questions:

    One of the two following propositions must be true, and the other must be false, since they are contradictories:

    1. Spurgeon, when he said that "Calvinism is the gospel," meant that Calvinism is the gospel.
    2. Spurgeon, when he said that "Calvinism is the gospel," did not mean that Calvinism is the gospel.

    Which of those two propositions is the true one, and which the false?

    One of the two following propositions must be true, and the other must be false, since they are contradictories:

    1. Calvinism is the gospel.
    2. Calvinism is not the gospel.

    Which of those two propositions is the true one, and which the false?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    So do you!
    False accusation! I believe all sinners Christ died for are saved. I have testified to that continually.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    False accusation! I believe all sinners Christ died for are saved. I have testified to that continually.

    No, you don't believe that. If you believed that, then you wouldn't be trying to share what you call "the gospel" with people. You believe that it is by means of the preaching of what you call "the gospel" that sinners will become saved--that is, go from being not saved to being saved. You believe that some sinners for whom Christ died are not yet saved. To be not yet saved is to be not saved, unsaved. No?

    Do you not consider a person's being lost to be one and the same thing as his/her being unsaved?

    So, your statement again:

    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    You also teach that sinners Christ died for are lost!
    So do you! You believe that Christ died for sinners who will not be saved until tomorrow, or the next day, or a year from now, or 10 years from now--sinners, that is, who are as yet unsaved--that is, lost!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    No, you don't believe that. If you believed that, then you wouldn't be trying to share what you call "the gospel" with people. You believe that it is by means of the preaching of what you call "the gospel" that sinners will become saved--that is, go from being not saved to being saved. You believe that some sinners for whom Christ died are not yet saved. To be not yet saved is to be not saved, unsaved. No?

    Do you not consider a person's being lost to be one and the same thing as his/her being unsaved?

    So, your statement again:



    So do you! You believe that Christ died for sinners who will not be saved until tomorrow, or the next day, or a year from now, or 10 years from now--sinners, that is, who are as yet unsaved--that is, lost!
    More false accusation!
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    More false accusation!
    So, you do not believe that Christ died for sinners who are lost now, but who will be saved in the future?

    You do not believe that to be unsaved is one and the same thing as to be lost?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    So, you do not believe that Christ died for sinners who are lost now, but who will be saved in the future?

    You do not believe that to be unsaved is one and the same thing as to be lost?
    More false accusation persisted in. I have stated on this forum for years what I exactly believe. You have lied on me. I stated to one of my adversaries that he doesn't believe that all sinners Christ died for are saved, but they may be and are lost, they will tell you thats what they believe and teach. I never ever stated that, so you have lied on me.

    Now show me/us a quote where I stated that sinners Christ died for can be lost. If you cant admit you lied !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    One of the two following propositions must be true, and the other must be false, since they are contradictories:

    1. Spurgeon, when he said that "Calvinism is the gospel," meant that Calvinism is the gospel.
    2. Spurgeon, when he said that "Calvinism is the gospel," did not mean that Calvinism is the gospel.

    Which of those two propositions is the true one, and which the false?

    One of the two following propositions must be true, and the other must be false, since they are contradictories:

    1. Calvinism is the gospel.
    2. Calvinism is not the gospel.

    Which of those two propositions is the true one, and which the false?
    Let me ask you a question. If the answer to your question is #2, what conclusion do you draw? Your question, specifically, is what Spurgeon meant. What did he mean when he used the term "Calvinism"? What did he mean when he used the term "gospel"? If one is going to be logically precise as you are here, you have to be able to be clear about every term. And until you can be certain that it is clear what Spurgeon meant (specifically) when he used the terms "Calvinism" and "gospel" in that statement, then your requirement that we must know what he meant fails at the start. We might even need to know what he meant by "is"...Was he meaning to identify one with the other (as in =) or was it more descriptive? Until we can know what he meant (precisely) by those terms, we can't know (precisely) what he meant.

    Now...someone reading that message should be able to differentiate between didactic teaching and emphatic (perhaps hyperbolic) hortatory. Because if Spurgeon is meaning to make the equivalence you want to force in a precise, exacting way, then his message should be didactic so that the listener (reader) is left in little doubt what he means by connecting the two. Otherwise, we can conclude little more than that there is something that Spurgeon calls (by nickname) "Calvinism" that meets all the requirements for what he calls "gospel". As often happens, people use terms in very specific ways. And it is to be expected that someone teaching will define those terms as much as possible so as to be clear. Spurgeon is entering into a sermon on preaching Christ and his statement about Calvinism being the gospel is couched thusly (note that even before this, he had already been speaking for a few minutes) :

    Before I enter upon our text, let me very briefly tell you what I believe preaching Christ and him crucified is. My friends, I do not believe it is preaching Christ and him crucified, to give people a batch of philosophy every Sunday morning and evening, and neglect the truths of this Holy Book. I do not believe it is preaching Christ and him crucified, to leave out the main cardinal doctrines of the Word of God, and preach a religion which is all a mist and a haze, without any definite truths whatever. I take it that man does not preach Christ and him crucified, who can get through a sermon without mentioning Christ's name once; nor does that man preach Christ and him crucified, who leaves out the Holy Spirit's work, who never says a word about the Holy Ghost, so that indeed the hearers might say, "We do not so much as know whether there be a Holy Ghost." And I have my own private opinion, that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism. Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith without works; not unless we preach the sovereignty of God in his dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor, I think, can we preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the peculiar redemption which Christ made for his elect and chosen people; nor can I comprehend a gospel which lets saints fall away after they are called, and suffers the children of God to be burned in the fires of damnation, after having believed. Such a gospel I abhor. The gospel of the Bible is not such a gospel as that. We preach Christ and him crucified in a different fashion, and to all gainsayers we reply, "We have not so learned Christ."
    https://www.spurgeon.org/resource-li...fied#flipbook/
    Spurgeon makes the point that he always boldly states his own opinions - but apparently he also makes it clear which are his opinions. He states that there is something that is being taught in his day as Calvinism. So can we be certain what PRECISELY that means? Since the preacher proceeds to delineate what it is he is talking about, we don't need to go survey every instance of preaching Calvinism in the mid-18th century. We are not justified in taking a local statement (local to this sermon and applied in the context as Spurgeon has defined it) and measuring it against detailed works of every aspect of Calvinism that were extant then. Spurgeon himself has cut to the chase and told us what he means by "Calvinism is the gospel".

    If I hand drew a circle on a piece of paper and asked you what I drew, what would you say I drew? Logically analyzing that sentence (and assuming you were telling the truth) you would say "a circle". But practically speaking, what is the likelihood that I draw an object that has a fixed, consistent radius at all points about its center? Slim to none. So are we justified in calling what I drew a circle? There are only two possiblilities :

    1. What I drew is a circle
    2. What I drew is not a circle

    Now answer that question without any caveat, condition or constraint and then maybe it will be possible to address your proposition.
    If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
    Jeremiah 17:9

    Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
    Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

    Isaiah 50:10-11

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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    If I hand drew a circle on a piece of paper and asked you what I drew, what would you say I drew? Logically analyzing that sentence (and assuming you were telling the truth) you would say "a circle". But practically speaking, what is the likelihood that I draw an object that has a fixed, consistent radius at all points about its center? Slim to none. So are we justified in calling what I drew a circle? There are only two possiblilities :

    1. What I drew is a circle
    2. What I drew is not a circle

    Now answer that question without any caveat, condition or constraint and then maybe it will be possible to address your proposition.
    What you drew is not a circle.

    "If I hand drew a circle on a piece of paper..."

    But, you didn't, because you can't. Whatever you drew, it's not a circle.

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