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Thread: Trump sez: Transgenders B gone!

  1. #241
    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Adultery and homosexuality should not be a crime, although they are certainly wrong in the eyes of God.


    GD, I'm actually shocked by this claim you just made...

    Have you forgotten?

    “You shall not commit adultery. - Exodus 20:14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...4&version=NKJV

    ‘The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death. - Leviticus 20:10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...0&version=NKJV

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  3. #242
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post


    GD, I'm actually shocked by this claim you just made...

    Have you forgotten?

    “You shall not commit adultery. - Exodus 20:14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...4&version=NKJV

    ‘The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death. - Leviticus 20:10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...0&version=NKJV
    I said it was wrong in God's eyes. I understand that.

    But, what is a crime under this world system is not the same as sin under God's.

  4. #243
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    what inherent qualities exist in rape and murder that don't exist in adultery and homosexuality?
    A direct innocent victim.

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  6. #244
    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    what inherent qualities exist in rape and murder that don't exist in adultery and homosexuality?
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    A direct innocent victim.
    As a victim of adultery myself, I can say that I was a direct victim of the crime, and am still trying to deal with the legal repercussions almost A YEAR LATER. And not only that, it is a direct affront to God.

    The direct victim of homosexuality is the nation itself, and indirectly, society as a whole.

    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    I said it was wrong in God's eyes. I understand that.
    You're missing the point.

    God didn't just forbid it, because it was a sin, He made it a crime, punishable by death.

    The law against adultery is a moral law, applicable to all people, regardless of border, tongue, or ethnicity, just like the laws against murder, theft, and bearing false witness.

    But, what is a crime under this world system is not the same as sin under God's.
    Not all sin is crime, GD, we seem to agree on that much.

    But I say this to your shame, you seem to have forgotten that all crime is sin, and that moral laws given by God are applicable to all humans.

    God forbade adultery because it directly harms society, and it directly harms the spouses of those involved, and even more so any children.

    That's why it's a crime. That's why it should be a crime. And that's why it needs to be made a crime again.

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  8. #245
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    As a victim of adultery myself, I can say that I was a direct victim of the crime, and am still trying to deal with the legal repercussions almost A YEAR LATER. And not only that, it is a direct affront to God.

    The direct victim of homosexuality is the nation itself, and indirectly, society as a whole.



    You're missing the point.

    God didn't just forbid it, because it was a sin, He made it a crime, punishable by death.

    The law against adultery is a moral law, applicable to all people, regardless of border, tongue, or ethnicity, just like the laws against murder, theft, and bearing false witness.



    Not all sin is crime, GD, we seem to agree on that much.

    But I say this to your shame, you seem to have forgotten that all crime is sin, and that moral laws given by God are applicable to all humans.

    God forbade adultery because it directly harms society, and it directly harms the spouses of those involved, and even more so any children.

    That's why it's a crime. That's why it should be a crime. And that's why it needs to be made a crime again.
    Don't be saying things are to my "shame", dear brother. It isn't your place to do so, and I'm quite sure we can have a discussion without going there.

    If you're seriously considering God's laws can be enforced in this world of sin, then you are mistaken.

    In fact, you are mistaken to think that laws would effect righteous living. Make a law, and man will break it.

    Make a law where the government is allowed to execute adulterers, and there would be few left to govern, especially if you took into account the true definition of adultery. If you're talking about making the act itself a crime, for which man can be executed by the government, you'll end up with the same abuses we see in Saudi Arabia. You simply cannot enforce righteous behaviour with the making or the enforcing of laws.

    And that's my point....I see no shame in saying so.

  9. #246
    TOL Subscriber George Affleck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    i've made no secret over the years of my opinion of artie and his penchant for abusive, drunken trolling, so i won't get into that here

    instead, I'd like to understand your reasoning, George, and I think it would be useful to walk it back a bit and see if you can answer this question that you kind of side-stepped, which is fair enough, it may not have been written well.


    so, i'll modify it, simplify it and ask again:


    In this "gospel of grace" do you believe that anything should be a crime?

    should murder be a crime?

    should adultery be a crime?

    should rape be a crime?

    should homosexuality be a crime?




    take note that these are simple, focused questions that deserve a simple, focused answer

    also note that I removed capital punishment from the discussion
    Thanks for asking this in a reasonable fashion. JR is on ignore now because I don't have time for his foolishness. He doesn't know how to engage and doesn't listen anyway.

    In one of my other posts I mentioned that we must make a distinction between civil/common law crime and sin according to biblical law (10 commandments, etc).

    The short answer to your question is yes, absolutely some on this list should be a crime in our common law. And there is an overlap to what is and what is not sin (specifically defined). Please notice that in your list are things that affect others directly and those that don't. Murder and rape for example are direct violence upon an individual against their wishes. Adultery and homosexuality are personal and non-violent. Nevertheless they are still sin in God's eyes.

    Because biblical law is the model for civil law, there are some overlaps. But notice that slavery, something we have outlawed, is not, according to the Bible, a specific sin enumerated anywhere. Bottom line? It is a mistake to conflate sin and crime.
    Religion is man's attempt to make himself acceptable to God. Christianity is God making man acceptable to Himself.

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  11. #247
    TOL Subscriber George Affleck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    What? Right when I show up?
    Hi gd!

    I was saying goodbye to JR.
    Now that you're here all is well!
    Religion is man's attempt to make himself acceptable to God. Christianity is God making man acceptable to Himself.

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  13. #248
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Affleck View Post
    Hi gd!

    I was saying goodbye to JR.
    Now that you're here all is well!
    I think JR is talking about in an ideal world. I sorta jumped in here without reading everything.

    We can't trust our "judges" today any more than they could in the days when Israel had Judges. God tried to warn them about that. The government's power should be very limited.

    1 Samuel 8:1-7
    1 And it came to pass, when Samuel was old, that he made his sons judges over Israel. 2 Now the name of his firstborn was Joel; and the name of his second, Abiah: they were judges in Beersheba. 3 And his sons walked not in his ways, but turned aside after lucre, and took bribes, and perverted judgment. 4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah, 5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. 6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord. 7 And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

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