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Thread: Not Christians!

  1. #31
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    Last edited by BoyStan; November 4th, 2018 at 07:50 AM.

  2. #32
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    Last edited by BoyStan; November 4th, 2018 at 07:51 AM.

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    Over 1500 post club Derf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyStan View Post
    Calling yourself a Christian today is folly. The Christian name tag has become repulsive to the world.
    The New Testament emphasises that we are saints. Let us call ourselves saints. Let us rejoice in our sainthood!
    If "Christian" is so stained in the world's eye, let's work to unstain it. Let's not pretend we don't have problems by changing our name.

    Btw, "saint" and "stain" are anagrams of each other.

    One more thing...if the world calls us "Christian" after Christ's name, I certainly wouldn't want to drop the "Chri" part (leaving "-stian", another anagram of the same 5 letters!) that shows how we are named after Him.

    14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. [2Ch 7:14 KJV]

    So I would suggest you not get so "antsi" (sorry, couldn't resist) about it, and encourage believers not to blaspheme the name of our Lord (Rom 2:24).

    (Hey, Bo-istan, did you notice how close your name comes to having another anagram of saint in it?)

    There's just no ifs, ands, or ain'ts about it. It's na likely (as our Scottish friends might say) we will be changing our name any time soon.

  4. #34
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    Last edited by BoyStan; November 4th, 2018 at 07:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyStan View Post
    Christians and the church are too much in love with the world and winning its favour. It would be better to accentuate the great divide between the world and church and christians. Who takes much notice of the name christian today? If the church really stood for the kingdom of God in this world today it would be persecuted to death. The blood of the martyrs would again be the seed of the church!
    There's still Christian martyrdom around the world, not so much in Europe and America, but it remains in more backward nations.

    The world belongs to Christians. It has for centuries. Back when the Church was born, in the 1st century, this was by no means true, and that's when the most famous Christian martyrs were disintegrated on crosses, beheaded, burned alive, and eaten by wild beasts for sport.

    The world began to become the Church's in the 4th century with Constantine converting to the faith. By the end of the 4th century, the Church had become the only licit religion in the Roman empire.

    The 4th century also sowed the seeds of the Reformation in the 16th century, when Christians themselves began to rebel against the Church being in an alliance with civil authority, and against the use of force to convert people to the faith, and to keep Christians toeing the line.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Idolater For Your Post:

    BoyStan (October 30th, 2018)

  7. #36
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    Last edited by BoyStan; November 4th, 2018 at 07:53 AM.

  8. #37
    TOL Legend God's Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
    Who cares what the world thinks, it's mostly your own reflection your seeing in others that you judge keeping you perpetuity reaping your own mind candy. labels and names have no substance other than herd hypnosis to keep you slumbering, the teaching of Christ is the way "in" to your true identity, not some religious ear tag or cultural nose ring that makes you Caesars property.
    Yeah but who did you get that idea from, did you get it from a new age teacher?
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyStan View Post
    The western world, like the 1st century, is increasingly anti Church and Christians.
    It's anti-Christendom, I'd say. That's way different from the Church and Christians.
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyStan View Post
    The clerical system exists to ensure Christians toe the line.
    You think? And by 'clerical system,' are you talking about the Church's authentic pastorate, that of the bishops, instituted by the Apostles, or is it some other thing than that? Without the application, or credible threat of force, there's not really a legitimate charge of anybody ensuring that anybody toes any line, wouldn't you agree?
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyStan View Post
    Hopefully seeds of another reformation are being sown
    The last Reformation hasn't yet demolished Christendom from the earth. It's centuries in the making, and it's not done yet.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

  10. #39
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    Last edited by BoyStan; November 4th, 2018 at 07:53 AM.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyStan View Post
    Christendom, Church, Christians go together as parts of a whole.
    I don't see it that way, at least not necessarily. Christendom is an error. The use of force to coerce Christian/'Christian' morals/behavior, and it is the opposite of the separation between Church and state; rather, it's the mingling together of the two.
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyStan View Post
    The clerical system developed after the apostolic era. It's purpose is the maintenance of orthodoxy,and the survival of the the bricks and mortar church system.
    That last part sounds like the bishops, except the bishops developed during the Apostolic era, they were first created by the Apostles, as 'senior' pastors of the Church, just as were the Apostles themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyStan View Post
    The Catholic Church is a prime example of "Without the application, or credible threat of force, there's not really a legitimate charge of anybody'.
    The Catholic Church hasn't even been accused of sanctioning the use of force in a rather long time.
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyStan View Post
    The New Testament gives a different picture of an organic not organisational church.
    What is 'organic' as compared to 'organizational,' to you? I just want to understand.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

  12. #41
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    Last edited by BoyStan; November 4th, 2018 at 07:53 AM.

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyStan View Post
    Saint everywhere! Anagram Master!

    Rom2:24 may apply to many Christians and churches today.

    I don't expect the changing of our Christian name any time soon.

    The point is Christians need to display greater saintliness or holiness.
    The fellowship of the churches should be a beacon of life to the world.
    Life that, like Jesus, grabs the world's attention.
    Life that in word and deed convinces and convicts the world of its sinfulness.
    Agree wholeheartedly!

    The Roman Catholic church is one obvious example. I'd have to put the Joel Osteens and Benny Hinns up there, too.

    But what do you think about the local churches? Should the pastors be preaching on holiness more?

    Doesn't seem like we should ever say "Jesus wants you just as you are." But I don't often hear "repent and be saved" these days.

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyStan View Post
    The Catholic Church may not use the sword to convert or keep its adherents, but its teachings are authoritarian and make threats for non compliance.
    Here is a threat of non compliance:

    Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnationh to himself, not discerning the Lordís body. 30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

    If you are unworthy, then you are not in full communion with the Body of Christ, because you cannot licitly eat and drink the Lord's Supper. That's Paul, verbatim.

    And the Catholic Church recognizes that everybody who believes in Christ is a Christian.
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyStan View Post
    The apostles appointed elders in the churches but after the apostles this developed into cardinals and popes and bishops that have unquestionable authority to dictate doctrines.
    You're questioning it right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyStan View Post
    That is using force!
    Using force is using force. Saying a thing is not using force. And every religion has the right to declare an office tasked with teaching the religion.
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyStan View Post
    The church is organised as a business with constitutions and lawyers and protocols and numerous policies. Whereas an organism is built on and depends on relationships of love and fellowship between one another
    There isn't a dilemma here, from the earliest days, the Church was both organized, and organic, in your words. There was always a hierarchy of teachers in the Church, the pastors were always there; at first it was only the Apostles themselves, but we read right in the New Testament that it didn't remain that way, and that the Apostles created pastors, the bishops.
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyStan View Post
    without the need for the organisational aspects
    With or without 'the need,' the Apostles themselves started the Church with 'organisational aspects' baked right in.
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyStan View Post
    of todays church. An organism has life but a business does not!
    I don't think many people think the Catholic Church is a business, but we can agree to disagree.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derf View Post
    Agree wholeheartedly!
    But how to convince and convict the world of sin is the question. The answer is not through the use of force. The answer is not Christendom. For me, the answer is to preach the Gospel, and focus on being in full communion with the Catholic Church, which handles the matter of holiness in the Christian life, by focusing on the holiness of the Eucharist. We cannot partake of the Eucharist licitly unless we are 'worthy' to partake, and it is so serious a matter to partake 'unworthily,' that Paul warns that it is being "guilty of the body and blood of the Lord," and that it is tantamount to eating and drinking "damnation" to ourselves to do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Derf View Post
    The Roman Catholic church is one obvious example. I'd have to put the Joel Osteens and Benny Hinns up there, too.

    But what do you think about the local churches? Should the pastors be preaching on holiness more?
    If they knew the truth, they should be preaching to be in full communion with the Catholic Church. See above.
    Quote Originally Posted by Derf View Post
    Doesn't seem like we should ever say "Jesus wants you just as you are."
    In a way, we certainly should, in the sense that you don't need to get cleaned up, tie up all your loose ends, before calling on Him, and believing the Gospel. In that sense, "Jesus wants you just as you are." He's going to clean you up Himself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Derf View Post
    But I don't often hear "repent and be saved" these days.
    Believe that He is risen.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    But how to convince and convict the world of sin is the question. The answer is not through the use of force. The answer is not Christendom. For me, the answer is to preach the Gospel, and focus on being in full communion with the Catholic Church, which handles the matter of holiness in the Christian life, by focusing on the holiness of the Eucharist. We cannot partake of the Eucharist licitly unless we are 'worthy' to partake, and it is so serious a matter to partake 'unworthily,' that Paul warns that it is being "guilty of the body and blood of the Lord," and that it is tantamount to eating and drinking "damnation" to ourselves to do it.
    If they knew the truth, they should be preaching to be in full communion with the Catholic Church. See above.
    In a way, we certainly should, in the sense that you don't need to get cleaned up, tie up all your loose ends, before calling on Him, and believing the Gospel. In that sense, "Jesus wants you just as you are." He's going to clean you up Himself.
    Believe that He is risen.
    Oh, you're absolutely right! Why didn't I think of that?? If we have a bunch of our priests commit indecent acts with children surely THAT will convince the world of sin and bring them into the communion of the church!

    How ingenious!

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