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Thread: Is Jesus God?

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    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings again Bright Raven, Yes, it was Jesus the Son of God, who was begotten by the power of God the Father, the Holy Spirit coming on Mary his mother, and thus Jesus was the only begotten of the Father his father. This reveals how The Word became flesh. As a child he developed, and at the time of his revealing to Israel, John witnessed his walking amongst them and testified of his moral glory, and states that Jesus was “full of grace and truth”
    John 1:14 (KJV): And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
    Luke 1:34–35 (KJV): 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
    Luke 2:40,52 (KJV): 40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him. 52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.


    Kind regards
    Trevor
    And who was Jesus before He became flesh?
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    And who was Jesus before He became flesh?
    I realize I'm speaking to the CHOIR, however, before He came in the flesh, He was the 'creator of all.' Colossians 1:16 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him

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  5. #33
    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Your complete inability to understand that Jesus is BOTH God and man is your problem.
    Good point. Jesus was exactly like his brothers. (Hebrews 2:17)

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    Yes He is...Jesus is God. As Isaiah puts it ...
    Isaiah 9:6-7:
    For to us a child is born,
    to us a son is given,
    and the government will be on his shoulders.
    And he will be called
    Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
    7
    Of the greatness of his government and peace
    there will be no end.
    He will reign on David’s throne
    and over his kingdom,
    establishing and upholding it
    with justice and righteousness
    from that time on and forever.
    The zeal of the Lord Almighty
    will accomplish this.

    So, the Son is the Son, the Holy Spirit (Wonderful Counselor) Mighty God and Everlasting Father

    Paul pens similarly...
    Romans 9:5:
    Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

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    Greetings again Bright Raven,
    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    And who was Jesus before He became flesh?
    Jesus became flesh in the same way as any other child, he was conceived and born. Do you believe that everyone preexisted, and if so, who was Bright Raven before you became flesh? otherwise your question is not relevant to the conception, birth and development of Jesus, the Son of God his father, and Mary his mother. Jesus is the name of the child born.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

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    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings again Bright Raven,Jesus became flesh in the same way as any other child, he was conceived and born. Do you believe that everyone preexisted, and if so, who was Bright Raven before you became flesh? otherwise your question is not relevant to the conception, birth and development of Jesus, the Son of God his father, and Mary his mother. Jesus is the name of the child born.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
    Do you see the connection between John 1:1 and John 1:14?

    John 1:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
    The Eternal Word
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    John 1:14

    John 1:14 New King James Version (NKJV)
    The Word Becomes Flesh
    14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings again Bright Raven,Jesus became flesh in the same way as any other child, he was conceived and born. Do you believe that everyone preexisted, and if so, who was Bright Raven before you became flesh? otherwise your question is not relevant to the conception, birth and development of Jesus, the Son of God his father, and Mary his mother. Jesus is the name of the child born.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
    The Bible is a big book.....read it.

    Philippians 2:6-8
    6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

    7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

    8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

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    Greetings again Bright Raven,
    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Do you see the connection between John 1:1 and John 1:14?
    John 1:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
    The Eternal Word
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    John 1:14 New King James Version (NKJV)
    The Word Becomes Flesh
    14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
    Yes, and the process whereby God's spoken word and the wisdom behind that word became flesh was by means of the conception and birth of Jesus, "the only begotten of the Father", with God the Father as his father, and Mary as his mother, not by shrinking the second person of the Trinity into the womb of Mary. The glory revealed was a moral glory "full of grace and truth", but Trinitarians do not want to look at the details of John 1:14. John beheld Jesus' glory at the beginning and throughout Jesus' ministry.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

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    Greetings glorydaz,
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    The Bible is a big book.....read it.
    Philippians 2:6-8
    6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
    8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
    Yes, and I suppose that you will quote one favourite so-called Trinitarian verse after another. Philippians 2 is speaking about the disposition of mind of Jesus as he grew up and during his ministry. He had been born in the form of God, and as the Son of God he was the greatest Prince ever born, but he did not use his status, and demand recognition in pride, but humbled himself as a servant, even unto crucifixion and death. As a result God has highly exalted him, and when we do obeisance to Jesus it is to the glory of God the Father, not to the Trinity. Please read the detail and understand what Paul is actually saying.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings again Bright Raven,Yes, and the process whereby God's spoken word and the wisdom behind that word became flesh was by means of the conception and birth of Jesus, "the only begotten of the Father", with God the Father as his father, and Mary as his mother, not by shrinking the second person of the Trinity into the womb of Mary. The glory revealed was a moral glory "full of grace and truth", but Trinitarians do not want to look at the details of John 1:14. John beheld Jesus' glory at the beginning and throughout Jesus' ministry.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
    The Word was GOD and the Word became flesh.

    Don't fight it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings glorydaz,Yes, and I suppose that you will quote one favourite so-called Trinitarian verse after another.
    No, I can see it will do no good to quote any verse...after what you've done to those I posted.

    Philippians 2 is speaking about the disposition of mind of Jesus as he grew up and during his ministry. He had been born in the form of God, and as the Son of God he was the greatest Prince ever born, but he did not use his status, and demand recognition in pride, but humbled himself as a servant, even unto crucifixion and death. As a result God has highly exalted him, and when we do obeisance to Jesus it is to the glory of God the Father, not to the Trinity. Please read the detail and understand what Paul is actually saying.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
    What Paul is "actually" saying? It's quite clear what he is "actually" saying, and how you managed to come up with that nonsense is beyond me.

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    Greetings again glorydaz,
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    No, I can see it will do no good to quote any verse...after what you've done to those I posted.
    What Paul is "actually" saying? It's quite clear what he is "actually" saying, and how you managed to come up with that nonsense is beyond me.
    Another detail that could help, is the contrast between Jesus in humility not grasping at equality with God, and what Adam and Eve did, when they grasped at equality with God.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings again glorydaz,Another detail that could help, is the contrast between Jesus in humility not grasping at equality with God, and what Adam and Eve did, when they grasped at equality with God.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
    Perhaps you missed my post.

    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    . . .

    First of all, where the Old Testament has God's prophets saying "Thus saith the LORD," not once in the New testament is that phrase found. Instead, it is replaced with Jesus saying "I say unto you."

    Which leads into the next reason:

    Whereas all of the prophets and writers of the Old Testament pointed to God with everything they said and did, in the New Testament, Jesus' entire message was about, no, not the Father (whom most people consider God anyways; in fact, it's almost undisputed that the Father is God), but HIMSELF! (More on this can be found at kgov.com/deity)

    . . .
    Jesus not only "grasped at" equality with God, HE CLAIMED IT, throughout His ENTIRE MINISTRY.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings again glorydaz,Another detail that could help, is the contrast between Jesus in humility not grasping at equality with God, and what Adam and Eve did, when they grasped at equality with God.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
    Didn't have to grasp for what He already had.

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    Greetings JudgeRightly,
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Perhaps you missed my post.
    There were many posts, and I decided to limit my response to a few aspects. The Post that you refer to also had a few other portions, and I thought that these were very superficial. But I will briefly respond to the part that you now refer to, except the reference which I have not yet considered:
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Yes, Jesus is God. Here are a few reasons that tell us that He is.
    First of all, where the Old Testament has God's prophets saying "Thus saith the LORD," not once in the New testament is that phrase found. Instead, it is replaced with Jesus saying "I say unto you."
    Which leads into the next reason:
    Whereas all of the prophets and writers of the Old Testament pointed to God with everything they said and did, in the New Testament, Jesus' entire message was about, no, not the Father (whom most people consider God anyways; in fact, it's almost undisputed that the Father is God), but HIMSELF!
    It is still God the Father speaking through His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God. The difference and the feature that you notice and draw attention to, the previous revelation through the prophets was partial, while the revelation through Jesus is complete and final:
    Hebrews 1:1–2 (KJV): 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son .
    Jesus not only "grasped at" equality with God, HE CLAIMED IT, throughout His ENTIRE MINISTRY.
    Adam and Eve were created in the image and after the likeness of God, and as such they were in the form of God. They grasped at being equal with God by partaking of the forbidden fruit. Jesus who was made a little lower than the Angels (Elohim) Psalm 8:5, and was because of this the Son of God, and thus in the form of God, did not grasp at equality, but became a servant, and voluntarily submitted to death. Please note that the same word “form” is used for “form of God” and “form of a servant” and this shows that this is speaking of his disposition of mind, not his pre-existence.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

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