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Thread: Pro-life and Democrat

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    Well, Democrats' 'definition/limitations' to gun rights, is precisely that with which I was contrasting
    And I think you narrow the net too much, as I suspect most Americans would object to your liberality on the point.

    , when I said 'gun rights.' I interpret 'the right of the people to keep and bear all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding,' just as the Supreme Court says, as our inalienable 'gun rights.'
    The Court got that wrong, though they also recognize limitations you object to.

    Democrats, do not, in or out of their fringe.
    Again, too narrow. According to Gallop polling (link) most Americans want more gun control (67%), while those supporting the status quo declines (28%) and those wanting looser laws and repeals is the lowest and declining (4%).
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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    There's no practical/social application to support such a choice.


    same as with abortion - autonomy, convenience, willfulness

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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    And I think you narrow the net too much, as I suspect most Americans would object to your liberality on the point.
    It's a confused topic. It's a very grave topic, so it would be nice if it weren't so confused. Nobody is confused about unlawful killing of an innocent person with malice aforethought being 'murder,' but there are many people who equate the NRA with a 'terrorist organization.'

    But there are a good number of us who don't object at all; a sizable minority, which in many counties, and even in some entire states, are a powerful majority.
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    The Court got that wrong


    Oh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    , though they also recognize limitations you object to.
    Heller (2008) dealt with handguns in DC, and Miller (2010) in Chicago, both were very narrowly scoped. Caetano is the next case after those two rulings. That's where we read that the right of the people to keep and bear arms, is tantamount to the right to keep and bear "all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding." That was in 2016.
    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    I think it's much harder to find a Democrat who is pro-gun rights.
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    Not outside the fringe, though their definition/limitations would be dramatically different from your own.
    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    I interpret 'the right of the people to keep and bear all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding,' just as the Supreme Court says, as our inalienable 'gun rights.' Democrats, do not, in or out of their fringe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    Again, too narrow.
    Not at all. Narrowness or broadness isn't the issue. Straw man. Red herring. Whatever. It's not the topic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    According to Gallop polling...
    I don't, really care.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    It's a confused topic. It's a very grave topic, so it would be nice if it weren't so confused. Nobody is confused about unlawful killing of an innocent person with malice aforethought being 'murder,' but there are many people who equate the NRA with a 'terrorist organization.'
    A silly idea, though they aren't the NRA of my youth, sadly. They've lost their way.

    But there are a good number of us who don't object at all; a sizable minority, which in many counties, and even in some entire states, are a powerful majority.
    4% at present...so sizeable might be generous.



    Oh.
    It happens. See: Dred Scott.

    Heller (2008) dealt with handguns in DC, and Miller (2010) in Chicago, both were very narrowly scoped. Caetano is the next case after those two rulings. That's where we read that the right of the people to keep and bear arms, is tantamount to the right to keep and bear "all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding."
    It's the last part that's pure invention and a mistake.

    I don't, really care.
    It wouldn't do for you to care, given how little support you have in that position, but it will, over time, matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    same as with abortion - autonomy, convenience, willfulness
    Why stop there....is this where your spurious correlations end?
    _/\_

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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    A silly idea
    It wouldn't do for you to treat it seriously, since those idiots who spout such 'silly' ideas are all voting the way you vote.

    Stop. Vote NRA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    they aren't the NRA of my youth, sadly. They've lost their way.
    Given your views on fundamental gun rights, you've no other choice, but that conclusion. Meanwhile the NRA largely (not perfectly) supports obeying the supreme law of the land, and the authorized interpretations of that law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    4% at present...so sizeable might be generous.
    It'll take some time, some effort, some evangelization. Either the Supreme Court's authorized interpretation is correct, or it's not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    It happens. See: Dred Scott.
    The right of the black people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. I don't see the parallel. The unconstitutional Mulford Act sounds more like Dred Scott to me, being that this law targeted black people, patently infringing their right to keep and bear arms; who, just btw, are like my favorite people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    It's the last part that's pure invention and a mistake.
    They sure do refer to Heller a lot, as they're inventing it. 'Curious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    It wouldn't do for you to care, given how little support you have in that position, but it will, over time, matter.
    It will, when otherwise innocent people start to go 'hot,' in revolt against lawmakers who obstinately continue to have no regard for our inalienable gun rights, and the supreme law that very specifically protects them. Give me liberty or give me death, or some such.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    It wouldn't do for you to treat it seriously, since those idiots who spout such 'silly' ideas are all voting the way you vote.
    Most Americans would agree with me that calling the NRA terrorists, instead of shils, is a silly idea. And while most Americans would agree with me that gun laws should be toughened, I doubt my particular line in the sand would be that popular.

    Stop. Vote NRA.
    No. They once honored the safe use of weapons. Now they're little more than a mouthpiece for gun producers. And they've wrapped congress around their middle finger where American opinion is concerned. I know you don't care about that, but congress should in a representative democracy.

    Given your views on fundamental gun rights, you've no other choice, but that conclusion.
    Given the sea change on policy and approach since my youth it's rationally inescapable as conclusions go.

    Meanwhile the NRA largely (not perfectly) supports obeying the supreme law of the land, and the authorized interpretations of that law.
    You mean they'll take what they can get until they can get more.

    It'll take some time, some effort, some evangelization. Either the Supreme Court's authorized interpretation is correct, or it's not.
    It isn't, but it will take the continuation of American resolve to undo that error. On the plus side, for my perspective, it's heading in that direction pretty powerfully.

    I don't see the parallel.
    Sure you do. You just don't want to consider it. Like public opinion.

    It will, when otherwise innocent people start to go 'hot,' in revolt against lawmakers who obstinately continue to have no regard for our inalienable gun rights, and the supreme law that very specifically protects them. Give me liberty or give me death, or some such.
    If they want to become criminals then let them accept the consequence of that choice.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horn View Post
    The Trump administration is trying to abolish essential government programs to help the poor - especially poor pregnant women .
    Are there facts that support this?
    Contribute pros or cons to a discussion on same-sex marriage at Dialogos Studies. Simply Google "same-sex marriage Brownson Dialogos."

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    thehorn doesn't bother with facts

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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Scholten View Post
    Are there facts that support this?
    You might find this interesting. It's an article on the thrust of Trump and cohorts in paying for the tax cuts by impacting social services and supports that directly impact children. LINK
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

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  14. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Scholten View Post
    The people I am thinking of are personal friends. Not anyone who would be known by others. Some of them are very active Christians. Yet, adamant that Christians need to vote Democrat. I just don't understand it.
    It's simple. I am 100% opposed to abortion. I am 100% opposed to the way the GOP treats the poor, minorities, women, etc. and have never believed that they are actually opposed to abortion for reasons other than appealing to the extreme right as a way to keep themselves in office.

    IF it's truly about wishing to save the lives of the unborn, then the GOP shouldn't have done everything they could to take away healthcare. HINT: pregnant moms, unborn babies and children require health care. I simply do not believe the the GOP is prolife. To be prolife, one needs to care about the lives of the unborn (including AFTER they are born) and the lives of their mothers. The unborn do need their ***GASP*** mothers.
    Last edited by Rusha; October 18th, 2018 at 01:06 PM.
    As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes."
    When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics."
    When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty
    -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusha View Post
    It's simple. I am 100% opposed to abortion. I am 100% opposed to the way the GOP treats the poor, minorities, women, etc. and have never believed that they are actually opposed to abortion for reasons other than appealing to the extreme right as a way to keep themselves in office.

    IF it's truly about wishing to save the lives of the unborn, then the GOP shouldn't have done everything they could to take away healthcare. HINT: pregnant moms, unborn babies and children require health care. I simply do not believe the the GOP is prolife. To be prolife, one needs to care about the lives of the unborn (including AFTER they are born) and the lives of their mothers. The unborn do need their ***GASP*** their mothers.
    So you voted Democrat?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusha View Post
    HINT: pregnant moms, unborn babies and children require health care.
    HINT: doctors, nurses, hospitals and clinics all provide health care for pregnant moms, unborn babies and children

    not republican members of congress




    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    So you voted Democrat?

    you'd have to be a total tard to vote democrat

    of course, she seems to think that republican members of congress provide health care

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusha View Post
    The unborn do need their ***GASP*** their mothers.
    and republican members of congress are preventing that from happening?

    how do you figure? do you envision paul ryan leading a gang of senators into washington area maternity wards and snatching children away from their mothers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusha View Post
    I am 100% opposed to the way the GOP treats the poor, minorities, women, etc. ...


    then you should have no problem clearly articulating specific examples of the horrible things the GOP does to mistreat the poor, minorities, women, etc.

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