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Thread: You Cannot Live the Christian Life

  1. #91
    Silver Member Clete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    That verse in John 5 is about His Deity.

    Etc.

    And plenty of passages in John depict Him asserting He is working WITH The Father, as His Co-equal WITH Him.

    Those other passages you cited speak of His carrying out the Father's will WITH Him.

    John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

    And...

    John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

    He Himself is carrying out what is actually Their will.

    Read those passages surrounding the passage you cited from John 5 - He was referring to His shared Deity with the Father.

    How that they were working together as One.

    Acts 17: 11, 12.
    I think, in fact I'm pretty sure, that Jesus meant what He said.

    Further, your point here is not mutually exclusive to Pastor Hill's. Your point is valid in that there is one God and the Father and Son are One. But it is also true that the plurality that exists within the Godhead is real and the Father and Son are therefore, in some important sense that is not fully explained to us, not the same person.

    That is very nearly universally accepted Trinitarian doctrine which happens to allows us both to be right in this case. Jesus, to use your words, worked together with the Father by submitting His will to the Father's. The alternative is to believe that Jesus was not really praying to anyone and that He was not making a real request when He ask, "O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me..."

    Clete

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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  3. #92
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    I think, in fact I'm pretty sure, that Jesus meant what He said.
    Then you must believe that the Jews who lived under the law were saved apart from works because this is what He told those people:

    "Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die" (Jn.11:25-26).

    "For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day"
    (Jn.6:40).

    "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life"
    (Jn.5:24).

    Clete, are you "pretty sure" that the Lord Jesus meant what He said when He told the Jews who lived under the law that those of them who "believed" received those spiritual blessings?

    And are you "pretty sure" that "whoever" believes has eternal life and will not perish?:

    "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:16).

  4. #93
    Over 5000 post club Aimiel's Avatar
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    One Scripture sticks with me day after day... Jesus said that He ALWAYS does the will of His Father. I long to one day be able to say that. It's a goal worth striving for. I thank God for the honesty and humility Bob Hill showed in his life and preaching and especially the quote in Clete's OP. I thank God for the good people of TOL and the many great Christians I've had the privilege of knowing here.
    "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." -- Amos 3:7

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  6. #94
    Silver Member Clete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Then you must believe that the Jews who lived under the law were saved apart from works because this is what He told those people:

    "Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die" (Jn.11:25-26).

    "For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day"
    (Jn.6:40).

    "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life"
    (Jn.5:24).

    Clete, are you "pretty sure" that the Lord Jesus meant what He said when He told the Jews who lived under the law that those of them who "believed" received those spiritual blessings?

    And are you "pretty sure" that "whoever" believes has eternal life and will not perish?:

    "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:16).
    You're a troll. One more attempt to change the subject back to your pet doctrinal hang up and I'll report it. I have you on ignore but I will not have you trolling around attempting to turn every one of my threads into a debate about your pet issue.

    Go away. I do NOT care about what you think. I just don't. You spent every bit of any credibility you ever had years ago. Seriously - GO AWAY! I'm not asking and I'm not kidding.

    Clete

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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  8. #95
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    Go away. I do NOT care about what you think. I just don't. You spent every bit of any credibility you ever had years ago. No one can respond to a single post on nearly any subject without you twisting into a discussion about how Moses was saved by grace apart from works. It's utter stupidity. GO AWAY! I'm not asking and I'm not kidding.
    Instead of actually discussing the Scriptures in an intelligent way you attack those who don't agree with your mistaken views. It is you who has no credibility because you cannot even understand that the Lord Jesus said that "believing" and only believing resulted in eternal life for the Jews who lived under the law:

    "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).

    Even though the Savior Himself says tells the Jews who lived under the law that those of them who "believed" had eternal life and will not be judged you still argue that "believing" was not enough for those people. And the Lord Jesus makes it plain that those who lived under the law received the following spiritual blessings by "believing" and nothing more:

    "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die" (Jn.11:25-26).

    Even after being shown these words which were spoken to a Jewess who lived under the law you still argue that "believing" was not enough for those people because in order for them to receive the reward they had to do "works" in addition to "believing." Also you obviously cannot understand the simple words of the Savior spoken to the Jews who lived under the law when He spoke of His Father's will:

    "For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day" (Jn.6:40).

    Then just a few verses later He told the Jews who lived under the law the following:

    "Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).

    You call yourself a Christian yet you refuse to believe the Lord Jesus Christ's words on this subject and you obviously cannot understand spiritual things:

    "The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit" (1 Cor.2:14).
    Last edited by Jerry Shugart; January 13th, 2019 at 10:12 PM.

  9. #96
    Silver Member Clete's Avatar
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    No way that Jerry will stop. Therefore, I'm closing the thread.

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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