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Thread: You Cannot Live the Christian Life

  1. #46
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    I don't agree with you that believers can be children of the night.
    Christians can certainly walk in darkness or why would Paul say the following to Christians?:

    "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them" (Eph.5:11).

    We can also understand that it is indeed possible for a Christian to walk or live after the flesh because Paul tells Christians that if they live after the flesh they shall die:

    "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Ro.8:13).

    Why would Paul warn these Christians about living after the flesh if it was impossible for them to to do such a thing?

    The "death" spoken of here is in regard to the "life" which Paul speaks of here:, that "we should also walk in newness of life" (Ro.6:4) so that "the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh" (2 Cor.4:11). So if a Christian lives a self-centered life any newness of life which they once had will die or cease to exist.

    It is a fact that Peter walked in darkness or after the flesh because Paul said this about him:

    "But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?" (Gal.2:11-14).

    Are you willing to argue that Peter always walked after the Spirit despite what Paul said about his actions in that passage?

  2. #47
    Over 5000 post club marhig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    Every Christian on the planet should be made to read the following post!



    Thank you so much Pastor Hill!

    You have no idea how big an impact this single article had on my life!

    Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!


    Here's a link to the thread that the post was originally posted on. The discussion there is worth reading as well!

    Resting in Him,
    Clete
    Loving God with all your heart is the answer, but with that should also come to love your neighbour as yourself. As it's on these two commandments that hang all the law and the prophets.

    And those who truly love God with all their heart, will live by his will because they love and reverence him.

    Without God, we can't do anything. With him nothing is impossible through true faith and God's grace. If we have faith, and trust in God, and truly follow Jesus, then we can overcome the world through Christ by the power of the Spirit.

  3. #48
    Over 5000 post club marhig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Can you please help me find the Scriptures where the Lord Jesus said that He could not live the Christian life?

    I don't think that is the meaning of the Lord's words when He said “the Son can do nothing of Himself.”

    Instead, I believe that His words here are referring to what He said in the following two verses:

    "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me" (Jn.6:38).

    "I can do nothing by Myself; I judge only as I hear. And My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (Jn.5:30).

    I find it very strange that a Christian would say that the Lord Jesus couldn't live the Christian life.
    I don't! It's the truth, the Lord Jesus couldn't do anything without the father. He said, as he prayed to the father in John 17, "you have given me power over all flesh" the father gave him the power, and he also said that without him he could do nothing.

    And neither can we!

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to marhig For Your Post:

    Clete (October 15th, 2018)

  5. #49
    Silver Member Clete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Loving God with all your heart is the answer, but with that should also come to love your neighbour as yourself. As it's on these two commandments that hang all the law and the prophets.
    Okay, fine. I can agree with that but do NOT do so because the Law says so!

    And those who truly love God with all their heart, will live by his will because they love and reverence him.
    Not because the laws says so they won't nor will it be because of believing "really hard" or by self-disipline or by following some set of rules.

    Under grace there is but one rule and one rule only...

    DO NOT PLACE YOURSELF UNDER A LIST OF RULES!!!!

    Colossians 2:20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

    Without God, we can't do anything. With him nothing is impossible through true faith and God's grace. If we have faith, and trust in God, and truly follow Jesus, then we can overcome the world through Christ by the power of the Spirit.
    This sort of misses the point of Pastor Hill's sermon. It isn't that we can overcome the world, it's that we have already overcome the world - IN HIM. Christians spend their whole lives running after that which is within arm's reach; trying to get what they already pocess; trying to acheive that which has already been acccomplished. You are complete in Him having both died and been resurected with Him. Now it is no longer you live but He lives His life in and through you. There is nothing left to add.

    See?

    Resting in Him,
    Clete

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    I don't! It's the truth, the Lord Jesus couldn't do anything without the father. He said, as he prayed to the father in John 17, "you have given me power over all flesh" the father gave him the power, and he also said that without him he could do nothing.
    Everything the Lord Jesus was doing when He came to the earth was to do the will of the Father and in order to do that the Father gave Him the power over all flesh.

  7. #51
    Over 5000 post club marhig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    Okay, fine. I can agree with that but do NOT do so because the Law says so!


    Not because the laws says so they won't nor will it be because of believing "really hard" or by self-disipline or by following some set of rules.

    Under grace there is but one rule and one rule only...

    DO NOT PLACE YOURSELF UNDER A LIST OF RULES!!!!

    Colossians 2:20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.


    This sort of misses the point of Pastor Hill's sermon. It isn't that we can overcome the world, it's that we have already overcome the world - IN HIM. Christians spend their whole lives running after that which is within arm's reach; trying to get what they already pocess; trying to acheive that which has already been acccomplished. You are complete in Him having both died and been resurected with Him. Now it is no longer you live but He lives His life in and through you. There is nothing left to add.

    See?

    Resting in Him,
    Clete
    Clete, the only way that we can overcome the world, is to die to self through Christ by the power of the spirit. We cannot keep on loving the world and living by the lusts of the flesh and truly follow Jesus, we should be dead to our old life and dying daily being put to death by the Spirit and turning from sin and this world. There's no "it's already done for us" Jesus didn't do it all for us, he showed us the way, he led by example. We wouldn't need an example to follow if it was already done for us. It says in the Bible that we are to walk as Jesus walked thus we have to live it out. We are to be doers of the word and not hearers only.

    But, we cannot do anything without the father, we would be blind, deaf and dumb without him and Christ Jesus has come to open our eyes and ears to the truth, if we are willing to listen and let him in to our hearts. And if we do, we will live our lives to please the living God, and live according to his will, not our own and truly follow Jesus. We will listen to our conscience and turn from sin and obey God as he teaches and guides us by the Spirit of truth.

    And I don't love God because of the laws, you can't make someone love, I love God from my heart because I love him, and I know that he has blessed me, and I still can't believe that he had mercy on me, I'm nothing yet I know he is with me, because he is helping me to overcome daily which is something I could never do without him and his love fills my heart and it's more precious than anything that this world has to offer. I don't care for worldly wealth, or building up in the world, I'm just happy to get by and I leave my life in God's hands and trust in him. I care more about bringing the truth to others rather than living in the world and loving the ways of it. nothing can compare to the love of God, and nothing can compare to the peace that fills my heart. I'm truly blessed.
    Last edited by marhig; October 16th, 2018 at 07:51 PM.

  8. #52
    Over 5000 post club marhig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Everything the Lord Jesus was doing when He came to the earth was to do the will of the Father and in order to do that the Father gave Him the power over all flesh.
    It's because Christ Jesus lived by the will of the father that the father gave him power over all flesh, because the Lord Jesus always did what pleased the father so the father never left him alone and he was always with him.

    John 8

    And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

    And the Lord Jesus had a choice, he also had his own will but he denied it to live by the father's will, to bare witness to the truth and bring us the gospel hoping to save as many as would listen, believe, repent and turn to God.
    Last edited by marhig; October 16th, 2018 at 12:11 PM.

  9. #53
    Silver Member Clete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Clete, the only way that we can overcome the world, is to die to self through Christ by the power of the spirit. We cannot keep on loving the world and living by the lusts of the flesh and truly follow Jesus, we should be dead to our old life and dying daily being put to death by the Spirit and turning from sin and this world. There's no "it's already done for us" Jesus didn't do it all for us, he showed us the way, he led by example. We wouldn't need an example to follow if it was already done for us. It says in the Bible that we are to walk as Jesus walked thus we have to live it out. We are to be doers of the word and not hearers only.

    But, we cannot do anything without the father, we would be blind, deaf and dumb without him and Christ Jesus has come to open our eyes and ears to the truth, if we are willing to listen and let him in to our hearts. And if we do, we will live our lives to please the living God, and live according to his will, not our own and truly follow Jesus. We will listen to our conscience and turn from sin and obey God as he teaches and guides us by the Spirit of truth.

    And I don't love God because of the laws, you can't make someone love, I love God from my heart because I love him, and I know that he has blessed me, and I still can't believe that he had mercy on me, I'm nothing yet I know he is with me, because he is helping me to overcome daily which is something I could never do without him and his love fills my heart and it's more precious than anything that this world has to offer. I don't care for worldly wealth, or building up in the world, I'm just happy to get by and I leave my life in God's hands and trust in him. I care more about bringing the truth to others rather than living in the world and loving the ways of it. nothing can compare to the love of God, and nothing can compare to the peace that fills my heart. I'm truly blessed.
    To the extent to which you try is the extent to which you have failed to die to self. God is not interested in "helping" you accomplish that which only He can do. How much "help" does a dead man need? You are wanting God to help you "overcome daily". Your bible tells you, however, that you are complete in Him. There is nothing more to overcome.

    It is true that we still must contend with the flesh, which has not yet been redeemed but it is not accomplished by our effort. Paul says this explicitly in Romans 7 & 8...

    Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

    21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

    So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

    8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

    9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

    Galatians 2:19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

    Colossians 2:6 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.
    9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

    20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

    Don't just skim over those passages. Be sure to actually read them through. They express the "how to" part of Paul's gospel. It isn't about trying to be better! You cannot be better. In the flesh, we are hopeless, in the Spirit we are complete! Either way, there is no "better" to be attained. To try to be better is to resurrect the flesh and to not see yourself in Him. Our job is not to try to be better people, it is to acknowledge that God is good and we are not and that it is His righteousness that has been imputed to us by faith. We are to rest on the biblical fact that it is no longer we who live but Christ who lives in us and that the life we now live in the flesh is lived not by effort but by faith.

    If this sounds like I'm advocating a fruitless Christian life, the implication of that would be that we can produce more fruit than can Christ. On the contrary, what I am advocating is that we get out of Christ's way. We do that by simply believing and resting in the fact that He has done what only He could do and in so resting, we allow Him do the work that only He can do. The result will be fruit salad!

    It's all 100% Christ and 100% by faith.


    Resting in Him,
    Clete

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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