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Thread: Calvinism: Only Some People Have the Ability to Believe the Gospel

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    Again, the very thread title is false, which means the OP has started with a false position and he cannot rectify it by trying to prove it correct. Wrong is wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Ah, so you get to add, "Those whom God makes alive in Christ do seek God".
    You're claiming Paul just neglected to state that, as did the author of the Psalm?

    What would we do without you?
    No, I'm saying they didn't need to say it. You should know it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    Again, the very thread title is false, which means the OP has started with a false position and he cannot rectify it by trying to prove it correct. Wrong is wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    Wrong is wrong
    Next up: It is, what it is.


    Teach us. Please?
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Next up: It is, what it is.


    Teach us. Please?
    I have. I have pointed you to Ephesians 1 and 2.
    Some have ears to hear. Beloved57 hears.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    I have. I have pointed you to Ephesians 1 and 2.
    Some have ears to hear. Beloved57 hears.
    Wrong is wrong.

    So there. You taught us that-we learned that from you.
    Saint John W

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  8. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    ...Beloved57 hears.
    Yes on some matters, an unqualified no on important matters:

    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post4869475

    For more:
    http://www.romans45.org/articles/hypercal.htm

    Amos 3:3

    BTW, FYI:
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5159685

    Hang in there.

    AMR
    Last edited by Ask Mr. Religion; October 3rd, 2018 at 08:29 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Yes on some matters, an unqualified no on important matters:

    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post4869475

    For more:
    http://www.romans45.org/articles/hypercal.htm

    Amos 3:3

    BTW, FYI:
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5159685

    Hang in there.

    AMR
    Thanks for the article on hypercalvinism. I haven't been exposed to this. I came out of free will (Mennonite Brethren) and by Providence found myself at Bethlehem Baptist where both John Piper and Thomas Schreiner were teaching. I just kept reading scripture and challenging their claims, but they gently questioned and pointed out scripture that I was left to consider. I'm still in process. I like Arthur Pinks "The seven sayings of the Savior on the cross" and "The Attributes of God."
    I keep reading scripture. I can no longer be an Arminian because the scriptures show that free will is not possible because God is fully Sovereign. I also see that the gospel is spoken to all, even though the elect will be the only ones who hear the gospel and recognize it is not foolishness, but is truth that gives life.

  10. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    Thanks for the article on hypercalvinism. I haven't been exposed to this. I came out of free will (Mennonite Brethren) and by Providence found myself at Bethlehem Baptist where both John Piper and Thomas Schreiner were teaching.
    Are you still a member there? If not seek out a confessional church depending upon your Baptist or Presbyterian leanings: Credo (LBCF) or Paedo baptistic(WCF).

    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    I just kept reading scripture and challenging their claims, but they gently questioned and pointed out scripture that I was left to consider. I'm still in process. I like Arthur Pinks "The seven sayings of the Savior on the cross" and "The Attributes of God."
    We are all a work in progress.

    Try this for the full systematic treatment:
    http://downloads.biblicaltraining.or...%20Berkhof.pdf

    This for a more terse and formalized treatment (see also Ch. 8 on theology proper):
    http://www.davidcox.com.mx/library/H...20Theology.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    I keep reading scripture. I can no longer be an Arminian because the scriptures show that free will is not possible because God is fully Sovereign. I also see that the gospel is spoken to all, even though the elect will be the only ones who hear the gospel and recognize it is not foolishness, but is truth that gives life.
    Most will resist recognizing just how dire their state really is. The humanistic tendency is to cling to being "in charge" with a level of autonomy that cannot be found in Holy Writ. From that comes the denial of the full effects of the fall of Adam.

    We all have free will, properly defined. We are just not as free as we think we are, nor are we as free as God. Our freedom is self-determination. We make choices, real choices, most of which have moral consequences. It is just that those who have not been born-anew (regenerated) cannot choose to not sin as a direct result of the corruption of their natures from the fall of Adam. All their self-determining choices are at enmity with God. Their motives are not aright. Their inclinations are not for the glory of God. If and until God acts first, they will remain in this dire state...in Adam.

    Once God acts, the natures of these persons is radically changed, such that one's self-determining choices will be for the good. They will instantaneously seek the righteousness of God. The ordinary means of this radical change is by the hearing of the Good News. For those whom God has set His preferences upon, the efficacious grace from the power of the Holy Spirit quickens them from their dire state in Adam. They hear the Good News inwardly and faith is the firstfruit of their quickening.

    Keep reading and studying Scripture, for therein is our sole rule of life for all that we think, do, or say. Rely upon those saints that have come before us to test your conclusions and interpretations. Seek out older men of faith in the church that have years of experience and wisdom on difficult matters with which you wrestle.

    Feed your faith and starve your temptations or doubts by not neglecting daily Scripture study, rejoicing in hope, being patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer (Romans 12:12), fellowship with other believers, keeping good stewardship of the secular and spiritual gifts God has given you—including how and where your time is being spent—and with regular corporate assembly with others to worship God, receive instruction, access the ordinary means of grace through Word and Sacrament, and be subject to discipline.

    Lastly, resist the "cage-stage" of your newfound views:
    https://www.desiringgod.org/articles...f-graciousness



    AMR
    Embedded links in my posts or in my sig below are included for a reason. Tolle Lege.



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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    Thanks for the article on hypercalvinism. I haven't been exposed to this. I came out of free will (Mennonite Brethren) and by Providence found myself at Bethlehem Baptist where both John Piper and Thomas Schreiner were teaching. I just kept reading scripture and challenging their claims, but they gently questioned and pointed out scripture that I was left to consider. I'm still in process. I like Arthur Pinks "The seven sayings of the Savior on the cross" and "The Attributes of God."
    I keep reading scripture. I can no longer be an Arminian because the scriptures show that free will is not possible because God is fully Sovereign. I also see that the gospel is spoken to all, even though the elect will be the only ones who hear the gospel and recognize it is not foolishness, but is truth that gives life.

    If you don't come to Christ as a repentant sinner to be saved by him and by him alone, you will perish. It is not the Gospel plus your Calvinist religion, it is Jesus Christ and his Gospel plus nothing. When you add religion to the Gospel you have perverted the Gospel and have perverted your faith.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    If you don't come to Christ as a repentant sinner to be saved by him and by him alone, you will perish. It is not the Gospel plus your Calvinist religion, it is Jesus Christ and his Gospel plus nothing. When you add religion to the Gospel you have perverted the Gospel and have perverted your faith.
    Placing salvation in the hands of the sinner, Thats a law gospel of works ! Do or die as in the law !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    Again, the very thread title is false, which means the OP has started with a false position and he cannot rectify it by trying to prove it correct. Wrong is wrong.
    What is false about what we read here?:

    "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb.2:9).

    Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it false!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    What is false about what we read here?:
    "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb.2:9).

    Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it false!
    Just because you quote Heb 2:9 doesnt mean you believe it nor understand it.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    What is false about what we read here?:

    "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb.2:9).

    Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it false!
    Are you claiming universalism?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    What is false about what we read here?:

    "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb.2:9).

    Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it false!
    Let's look at Hebrews 2:9-10, shall we?
    Notice that it says "Jesus suffered death for us."
    Who is the"us" the writer is talking to? The answer is in Hebrews 1. The elect.
    So, when the author later uses the word "everyone," he is including all the elect.
    The author is not speaking as a universalist as you are doing.
    In verse 10, we see that God does the choosing, not human beings.
    Jerry, it is at this point you should have a lightbulb go off in your mind and recognize that you are wrong.

    9 What we do see is Jesus, who was given a position “a little lower than the angels”; and because he suffered death for us, he is now “crowned with glory and honor.” Yes, by God’s grace, Jesus tasted death for everyone. 10 God, for whom and through whom everything was made, chose to bring many children into glory. And it was only right that he should make Jesus, through his suffering, a perfect leader, fit to bring them into their salvation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    Let's look at Hebrews 2:9-10, shall we?
    Notice that it says "Jesus suffered death for us."
    Who is the"us" the writer is talking to? The answer is in Hebrews 1. The elect.
    The Lord Jesus died for every man and of course those who believe (the elect) are included in that category.

    "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb.2:9).

    The following words of Paul are saying the same thing:

    "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time" (1 Tim.2:6).

    The word "all" does not mean "some." The words "every man" do not mean "every one of the elect."

    And "no," I am not a Universalist!

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