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Thread: Calvinism: Only Some People Have the Ability to Believe the Gospel

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Calvinism: Only Some People Have the Ability to Believe the Gospel

    According to ideas of the Calvinists only some people have been given the ability to believe the gospel and therefore the unsaved do not have the ability to believe. However, the following words of Paul demonstrate that even those who are perishing have the ability to believe:

    "And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God"
    (2 Cor.4:3-4).

    The gospel is hidden to those who are perishing and the god of this age, Satan, is responsible for the gospel being hidden from them. Satan blinded their minds to the gospel for one purpose, "so that they cannot see the light of the gospel."

    The fact that the minds of those who are perishing can be "blinded" to the gospel proves that they have the ability to see it if their minds were not blinded to it. After all, one must be able to see before being blinded can happen.

    The truth that all men have the ability to believe the gospel and therefore receive the benefits which flow from the Lord Jesus' death prove that the Lord Jesus died for every person who has ever lived on the face of the earth:

    "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb.2:9).
    Last edited by Jerry Shugart; October 8th, 2018 at 11:41 AM.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER steko's Avatar
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    Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
    Act 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
    Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
    Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
    Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being;


    In all my years of dabbling in mind-altering substances, eastern mysticisms and meditation, I saw myself as seeking truth and the ultimate truth, the point of integration. During those years, I didn't know what(I should say 'who') the truth was, but I was seeking it/Him, I finally discovered.

    According to the Apostle Paul, GOD intended not only me, but all 'men/humanity', to freely seek Him and find Him.
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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    TOL Subscriber Grosnick Marowbe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
    Act 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
    Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
    Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
    Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being;


    In all my years of dabbling in mind-altering substances, eastern mysticisms and meditation, I saw myself as seeking truth and the ultimate truth, the point of integration. During those years, I didn't know what(I should say 'who') the truth was, but I was seeking it/Him, I finally discovered.

    According to the Apostle Paul, GOD intended not only me, but all 'men/humanity', to freely seek Him and find Him.
    Steko, I took a different route. My seeking originated with the fear of Hell.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER steko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    Steko, I took a different route. My seeking originated with the fear of Hell.
    Yeah, many go that route, with the prerequisite that they already believe that 'hell' actually exists, which arises from hearsay or actually believing that what the Bible says is true, at least about hell. I was agnostic with regard to the existence of 'hell' at that point.

    Either way, it comes from the absence of the peace that can only be had from being justified(declared not guilty) by faith(trust) in Christ's finished work on the cross.


    I'm glad that you're my brother, GM!


    GOD bless!
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    Yeah, many go that route, with the prerequisite that they already believe that 'hell' actually exists, which arises from hearsay or actually believing that what the Bible says is true, at least about hell. I was agnostic with regard to the existence of 'hell' at that point.

    Either way, it comes from the absence of the peace that can only be had from being justified(declared not guilty) by faith(trust) in Christ's finished work on the cross.


    I'm glad that you're my brother, GM!


    GOD bless!
    I feel the same about you, Steko.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    According to ideas of the Calvinists only some people have been given the ability to believe the gospel and therefore the unsaved do not have the ability to believe. However, the following words of Paul demonstrate that even those who are perishing have the ability to believe:

    "And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God"
    (2 Cor.4:3-4).

    The gospel is hidden to those who are perishing and the god of this age, Satan, is responsible for the gospel being hidden from them. Satan blinded their minds to the gospel for one purpose, "so that they cannot see the light of the gospel."

    The fact that the minds of those who are perishing can be "blinded" to the gospel proves that they have the ability to see it if their minds were not blinded to it. After all, one must be able to see before being blinded can happen.

    The truth that all men have the ability to believe the gospel and therefore receive the benefits which flow from the Lord Jesus' death prove that the Lord Jesus died for every person who has ever lived on the face of the earth:

    "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb.2:9).
    Your very title is wrong, meaning your presupposition is false. Therefore the rest of your statement follows a false path.
    No human can believe. Why? Because all have sinned. We are all dead in our trespasses and sins. We cannot believe because we are incapable of believing.
    But...
    God made us alive in Christ Jesus by his providing unmerited favor to those whom he makes alive.
    Upon making us alive, God gives the gift of faith (belief) so that we cannot boast about conjuring up belief by our own will power. This faith is active as we accomplish the good works God has ordained us to do.
    If you understood Ephesians 2:1-10, you would see your error and thus your false presupposition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
    Act 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
    Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
    Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
    Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being;


    In all my years of dabbling in mind-altering substances, eastern mysticisms and meditation, I saw myself as seeking truth and the ultimate truth, the point of integration. During those years, I didn't know what(I should say 'who') the truth was, but I was seeking it/Him, I finally discovered.

    According to the Apostle Paul, GOD intended not only me, but all 'men/humanity', to freely seek Him and find Him.
    Ouch. You misread the Apostle Paul. Best for you to apologize to him asap.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER steko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    Ouch. You misread the Apostle Paul. Best for you to apologize to him asap.
    Nope, I'm not a programmed machine, such as you.
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    Nope, I'm not a programmed machine, such as you.
    You didn't address the fact that Paul doesn't agree with you. He doesn't teach what you claim he does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    You didn't address the fact that Paul doesn't agree with you. He doesn't teach what you claim he does.
    You didn't address how you think that I misread the Apostle Paul.
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    Nope, I'm not a programmed machine, such as you.
    Me neither, brother!

    "The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name." Exodus 15:3

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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    You didn't address how you think that I misread the Apostle Paul.
    You wrote:
    "According to the Apostle Paul, GOD intended not only me, but all 'men/humanity', to freely seek Him and find Him."
    Yet Paul says this:
    10 As the Scriptures say,

    “No one is righteous—
    not even one.
    11 No one is truly wise;
    no one is seeking God.
    12 All have turned away;
    all have become useless.
    No one does good,
    not a single one.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    You wrote:
    "According to the Apostle Paul, GOD intended not only me, but all 'men/humanity', to freely seek Him and find Him."
    Yet Paul says this:
    10 As the Scriptures say,

    “No one is righteous—
    not even one.
    11 No one is truly wise;
    no one is seeking God.
    12 All have turned away;
    all have become useless.
    No one does good,
    not a single one.”
    So, you found an apparent contradiction.
    Now, what are you going to do with it?
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    So, you found an apparent contradiction.
    Now, what are you going to do with it?
    I don't have to do anything. You have to prove your point.

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    Your very title is wrong, meaning your presupposition is false. Therefore the rest of your statement follows a false path.
    As usual you talk big but when it comes to providing anything to support what you assert you come up empty.

    Can you not even understand that before a person can be blinded to the light of the gospel he must first be able to see its light?

    According to your ideas we must throw our reason to the wind and imagine that someone who cannot see the light of the gospel can be blinded to its light.

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