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Thread: The Nativity

  1. #16
    TOL Subscriber Zeke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeberHome View Post
    .
    Luke 1:31a . . Behold,

    The Greek word translated "behold" is idou (id-oo') which, in this case, means to listen up and pay attention 'cause this is important.

    Luke 1:31b . . you will conceive in your womb, and bear a son.

    The Greek word translated "conceive" means exactly what it says. We're not talking about a test tube baby here. The very same word is used at Luke 1:24 and Luke 1:36 in talking about Elizabeth's baby.

    It's amazing the number of Christians I encounter online who honestly believe that baby Jesus was an implant. i.e. that his mom was a surrogate mother instead of his biological mother.
    _
    Paul's revelations concerning the OT Biblical narratives told in duplicity as history yet actually symbolic/allegorical holding the mystery of dualism's dream of separation (Galatians 4:22-25, same "story" retold in Elizabeth and Mary, Proverbs 1:6, Matt 11:11, Galatians 4:1) is only exposed by applying them inwardly to the awakening process Ephesians 5:14. Acts 7:48,17:24 .
    Scattering the stories in the world of multitudes of appearances causes observational chaos Luke 17:20-21, where dualism reigns over the minds of men, unwilling to transpose them into personal narratives detailing their own conscience journey into the invisible kingdom of cause and effect, the multiple effects being the observational guide of theological separatist judging by historical signs and wonders where Jew and Gentile, male and female, play the observational pretense of spiritually which is a glass of effects/spiritual shadows, Psalm 78:2, Psalms 40:6, John 5:22.
    Trying to awaken the divine principle in the belly of the fish.

  2. #17
    Over 1000 post club WeberHome's Avatar
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    Post Re: The Nativity

    .
    Matt 1:18 . . His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.

    Mary must've let the cat out of the bag or how else would Joseph know about God's involvement in his best girl's baby. But I really don't think Joseph believed Mary's story because his next thought was to dump her.

    Matt 1:18-19 . . Joseph her husband, being a righteous man, and not wanting to disgrace her, desired to put her away quietly.

    The covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God requires engaged women to be executed when they willingly sleep with another man.

    Deut 22:23-24 . . If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death-- the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife.

    But the law is very particular in capital cases. Nobody can be executed for any crime sans the testimony of a minimum of two witnesses.

    Deut 17:6-7 . . At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death. The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people.

    The Bible says that Joseph was a righteous man; which means that he was a stickler for due process in strict accord with the covenant.

    So then, in the absence of two witnesses, Joseph had to let Mary slide; the same as grown-up Jesus had to let a woman taken in the very act of adultery slide for lack of witnesses. (John 8:9-11)
    _

  3. #18
    Over 1000 post club WeberHome's Avatar
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    Post Re: The Nativity

    .
    Matt 1:20a . .The angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said: Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary your wife because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.

    According to Matt 1:18, Joseph had been apprised of God's involvement in his best girl's baby; but didn't believe it. The angel's corroboration became essential to prevent the couple from parting company.

    Incidentally; the koiné Greek word for "wife" just simply means woman. The difference is made by modifying it with a possessive pronoun so that "your wife" is actually your woman.

    It's not too difficult to figure out why Joseph was afraid to go thru with the engagement. I mean; just think how humiliating it would be for a decent man to stand before friends and family to marry a girl coming down the aisle knocked up with another man's baby.

    And besides; if Mary was already sleeping around, who's to say she wouldn't sleep around again later on after she and Joseph were married? No; immoral girls are a bad bet because they can't be trusted to be faithful and true.
    _

  4. #19
    Over 1000 post club WeberHome's Avatar
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    Post Re: The Nativity

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    Matt 1:22-23 . . Now all this took place that what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet might be fulfilled, saying: Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel; which translated means: God with us.

    The prophet's name was Isaiah, and the prophecy is located in verse 14 of the 7th chapter of his book.

    Now, Joseph and Mary were instructed to name her baby "Jesus". So the identity of "they" in the prophecy wasn't his parents. It was actually the Jews.

    Luke 7:14-17 . . Jesus came up and touched the coffin; and the bearers came to a halt. And he said: Young man, I say to you, arise! And the dead man sat up, and began to speak. And Jesus gave him back to his mother. And fear gripped them all, and they began glorifying God, saying: God has visited His people! And this report concerning him went out all over Judea, and in all the surrounding district.

    NOTE: The name Emmanuel (a.k.a. Immanuel) appears only three times in the whole Bible: twice in Isaiah, and once in Matthew.
    _

  5. #20
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    Post Re: The Nativity

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    Matt 1:24-25 . . When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord commanded. He brought Mary home to be his wife, but she remained a virgin until her son was born.

    The couple didn't marry right away. According to Luke 2:1-7 they journeyed to Bethlehem as an engaged couple rather than a married couple.

    At first glance it appears that Mary and Joseph began shacking up; but I hardly think so. The Bible says Joseph was a righteous man. Well; righteous men don't shack up. The "home" that Joseph brought Mary to was likely his family's home rather than a bachelor pad.

    Preachers sometimes compose whole sermons to explain why Joseph didn't sleep with Mary right away, but the fact of the matter is: she and Joseph weren't wed till sometime after Jesus was born. Well; righteous men are men of character with high moral standards; viz: they don't sleep with women they aren't married to.
    _

  6. #21
    Over 1000 post club WeberHome's Avatar
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    Post Re: The Nativity

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    Luke 1:31-32 . . Listen carefully: you will conceive in your womb and bear a son . . and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father.

    In order for David to be Jesus' father, he had to be Mary's father too because her pregnancy wasn't man-made.

    Stay with me because I'm going to trace Jesus' biological genealogy all the way back to Adam.

    Acts 13:22-23 . . "I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfill all my will." Of this man's seed hath God, according to His promise, raised unto Israel a savior, Jesus.

    Rom 1:1-3 . . Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh

    The koiné Greek word for "seed" in those two passages is sperma (sper' mah) which is a bit ambiguous because it can refer to spiritual progeny as well as to biological progeny; for example:

    Gal 3:29 . . If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed.

    That seed is obviously spiritual progeny. But the seed in Acts 13:22-23 and Rom 1:1-3 is biological progeny because David's seed is "according to the flesh" i.e. his physical human body.

    Now, unless somebody can prove clearly, conclusively, iron clad, and without spin and sophistry that David's body was in no way biologically related to Adam's body, then we have to conclude that baby Jesus' body was also biologically related to Adam's body.

    Taking this a step further:

    Eve's body was made from Adam's body. (Gen 2:21-23)

    Consequently, when children are conceived by women that are biologically related to Eve, then the children are biologically related to Adam: whether naturally-conceived or virgin-conceived makes no difference, i.e. every child that biologically descends from Eve also biologically descends from Adam.

    Gen 3:15 . . I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.

    It's pretty much agreed by most Christians that Eve's predicted offspring was realized in Christ; which means that baby Jesus was not only Eve's biological offspring but Adam's too because her body was made from Adam's body.

    So then; in order to cut Jesus out of Adam's biological posterity it would be necessary to cut Mary out of Eve's biological posterity; and I've yet to encounter anyone either online or in church able to do that.
    _

  7. #22
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Who tried to cut the Lord Jesus out of Adam's biological posterity?

    Everyone knows that since the Lord Jesus was born of Mary that His ancestry goes back to Adam because that is true for all people.

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    I highly recommend the movie. I bought the DVD.



  9. #24
    Over 1000 post club WeberHome's Avatar
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    Post Re: The Nativity

    .
    Q: Was it really necessary for Joseph to adopt Mary's baby?

    A: It was essential because God selected Jesus to inherit David's throne. (Luke 1:32)

    Mary was directly related to David; but the monarchy passes down through David's son Solomon (1Kgs 1:16-39).

    Jesus' mom wasn't directly related to Solomon, so baby Jesus couldn't inherit the monarchy through her. And besides, Israel's monarchy always passed down through David's males; never his females.

    Q: Where'd you get this adoption theory of yours?

    A: At Gen 48:5-7, Jacob set a patriarchal precedent by adopting his two grandsons Manasseh and Ephraim; and by doing so installed them in positions equal in rank, honor, power, and privilege to his twelve original sons; thus legally increasing Jacob's total number of tribal heads from twelve to fourteen.

    Jacob's motive for adopting Joseph's two sons wasn't for himself; it was in sympathy for his beloved wife Rachel being cut off during her child-bearing years, which subsequently prevented her from having any more children of her own. Ephraim and Manasseh bring Rachel's legal total up to six: two of her own, two by the maid Bilhah, and two by Asenath.

    Q: If Jesus inherited the Davidic monarchy via adoption, then wouldn't he have inherited Jeconiah's curse right along with it? (Jer 22:29-30)

    A: Yes; because the monarchy and the curse were a package deal.

    However; the wording "to rule again in Judah" indicates that the curse on Jeconiah's royal progeny was limited to the era of the divided kingdom. That condition came to an end when Nebuchadnezzar crushed the whole country and led first Samaria, and then later Judah, off to Babylonian slavery.

    When Messiah reigns, the country of Israel will be unified. His jurisdiction won't be limited to Judah within a divided kingdom, but will dominate all the land of Israel. So the curse doesn't apply to him.

    Ezek 37:21-22 . .You shall declare to them: Thus said the Lord God: I am going to take the Israelite people from among the nations they have gone to, and gather them from every quarter, and bring them to their own land. I will make them a single nation in the land, on the hills of Israel, and one king shall be king of them all. Never again shall they be two nations, and never again shall they be divided into two kingdoms
    _

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