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Thread: Jews And Gentiles Same Goal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Are you a Jew or a Gentile? Jews repent and are baptized, Acts 2:38. Gentiles believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Pauls Gospel is the Gospel of grace given to the church as are his teachings in Romans through Philemon.
    How would I tell if I was Jew or Gentile, and even if I think I am one, how do I know I'm not mistaken? I'm asking you, since you say it matters.

    1. If I am Jewish and you gave me the other gospel, what happens if I try to follow the Gentile gospel that you gave me by mistake?

    2. If I am Jewish and you neglected to give me the gospel "for the Jews" then what happens if I do not follow the Jewish gospel?

    The answer to those questions above may create more questions, but I need to know the answers first. Please don't make me guess the answers; I'm asking you (not Squeaky) because I already know his answer. He is going to say that there is one gospel for both Jew and Gentile and that it wouldn't matter where (or to whom) you were born. Please explain this to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    RD, There may have been Gentiles in the crowd but Peter was speaking specifically to Jews. Were not the Apostles to go to the lost sheep of Israel. And was not Peter addressing the Jews in this passage. Peter is not the Apostle to the Gentiles, Paul is.
    Peter was addressing Israel. But proselytes were welcome as well.

    There have always been gentiles that joined with Israel just as God commanded in the beginning:

    Exo 12:48-49 KJV And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. (49) One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

    I'm well aware of who the apostle of the gentiles is. You should know by now that I know that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Peter was addressing Israel. But proselytes were welcome as well.

    There have always been gentiles that joined with Israel just as God commanded in the beginning:
    Exo 12:48-49 KJV And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. (49) One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

    I'm well aware of who the apostle of the gentiles is. You should know by now that I know that.
    Wasn't Rahab (from Jericho) a Gentile, but also in the lineage of Christ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Peter was addressing Israel. But proselytes were welcome as well.

    There have always been gentiles that joined with Israel just as God commanded in the beginning:

    Exo 12:48-49 KJV And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. (49) One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

    I'm well aware of who the apostle of the gentiles is. You should know by now that I know that.
    I think you answered the question yourself. Peter was speaking primarily to the Jews, Israel. I was not being demeaning when mentioning Paul as the Apostle to the Gentiles. I would not insult you in that way. Excuse my ignorance if it was taken that way.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    How would I tell if I was Jew or Gentile, and even if I think I am one, how do I know I'm not mistaken? I'm asking you, since you say it matters.

    1. If I am Jewish and you gave me the other gospel, what happens if I try to follow the Gentile gospel that you gave me by mistake?

    2. If I am Jewish and you neglected to give me the gospel "for the Jews" then what happens if I do not follow the Jewish gospel?

    The answer to those questions above may create more questions, but I need to know the answers first. Please don't make me guess the answers; I'm asking you (not Squeaky) because I already know his answer. He is going to say that there is one gospel for both Jew and Gentile and that it wouldn't matter where (or to whom) you were born. Please explain this to me.
    Well it is like the old saying;
    You can take a horse to water but you can't force him to drink.

    There are two Gospels, one to the Jew and one to the Gentile. Read the Scriptures and get it right. As for you being a Jew or not, only you know. All I can tell you is that a Gentile is a non-Jew.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    It is not the same Gospel Squeaky.
    The Gospel to the Jew is the Gospel of the Kingdom and salvation is found in the following way;

    Acts 2:37-38 King James Version (KJV)
    37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    The Gospel to the Gentile is the Gospel of the Grace of God found here;


    1 Corinthians 15:1-4 King James Version (KJV)
    15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

    2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

    3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

    4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
    I said
    You are dead wrong. There are two ways to be called. But only one Gospel, the Gospel of salvation. Through Jesus Christ. Acts 2-38 that is just calling to receive the Holy Spirit. 1Co-15 that is how to be saved. Neither is salvation. Its a calling. I have showed you for years now that saved and salvation are different. Having the Holy Spirit and obeying the Holy Spirit are different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    You are dead wrong. There are two ways to be called. But only one Gospel, the Gospel of salvation. Through Jesus Christ. Acts 2-38 that is just calling to receive the Holy Spirit. 1Co-15 that is how to be saved. Neither is salvation. Its a calling. I have showed you for years now that saved and salvation are different. Having the Holy Spirit and obeying the Holy Spirit are different.
    You contradicted yourself in the first sentence you wrote. There are two Gospels;

    Galatians 2:7 King James Version (KJV)
    7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    You contradicted yourself in the first sentence you wrote. There are two Gospels;

    Galatians 2:7 King James Version (KJV)
    7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
    There are many gospels. There are two gospels in that verse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    You contradicted yourself in the first sentence you wrote. There are two Gospels;

    Galatians 2:7 King James Version (KJV)
    7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
    I said
    No I didnt. Peter and Paul had the very same Gospel. Paul and Barnabas joined the apostles in fellowship. And decided that Peter would go to the Jews and Paul would go to the Gentiles. With the very same Gospel.. Paul even said when he joined them they didnt have nothing that he didnt have already. They added nothing to him.


    Gal 2:6-9
    6 But from those who seemed to be something-- whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man-- for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me.
    7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter
    8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),
    9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

    Col 3:9-14
    9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds,
    10 and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him,
    11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Well it is like the old saying;
    You can take a horse to water but you can't force him to drink.

    There are two Gospels, one to the Jew and one to the Gentile. Read the Scriptures and get it right. As for you being a Jew or not, only you know. All I can tell you is that a Gentile is a non-Jew.
    No @Bright Raven, the point is that in this case how can I know? It sounds like you are telling me to guess and hope I guessed right. So far it sounds like you are telling me you guessed and you have no way of telling if your guess was right, but eternal salvation lies in the balance if you guessed wrong and I believed you.

    1. If I am Jewish and you gave me the other gospel, what happens if I try to follow the Gentile gospel that you gave me by mistake?

    2. If I am Jewish and you neglected to give me the gospel "for the Jews" then what happens if I do not follow the Jewish gospel?

    Do you not know the answers to those questions? I'm sure I've asked them at least three times already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    There are many gospels. There are two gospels in that verse.
    Unless "the circumcision" and "the uncircimcision" is referring to two groups of people with different backgrounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Unless "the circumcision" and "the uncircimcision" is referring to two groups of people with different backgrounds.
    I said
    Circumcision is the Jews and uncircumcision is the Gentiles. He is trying to make them two different kind of Christians. It won't work but that is what he is trying to do. Jesus brought the new testament message to the Jew first. And the Jews rejected it so Jesus went to the Gentiles. Now its the same message. He is falling away short on understanding. When Paul met with Peter they decided for Peter to go to the Jews and Paul go to the Gentiles. There were two different ways to get to the same Jesus. Jesus whole message was salvation. And that takes the whole new testament.

    [1Co 7:19
    [19] Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God [is what matters].

    [Heb 9:16-18
    [16] For where there [is] a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
    [17] For a testament [is] in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.
    [18] Therefore not even the first [covenant] was dedicated without blood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Unless "the circumcision" and "the uncircimcision" is referring to two groups of people with different backgrounds.
    The circumcision and uncircumcision are two different groups, Thus two different gospels
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    The circumcision and uncircumcision are two different groups, Thus two different gospels
    I said
    lol Not so. Just called two different ways. But one goal one Gospel. Paul even though he made aan agreement with Peter to go to the Gentiles he still called Jews. And he would become what ever he needed to in order to win some to Christ.

    [1Co 9:19-23
    [19] For though I am free from all [men], I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more;
    [20] and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those [who are] under the law, as under the law, that I might win those [who are] under the law;
    [21] to those [who are] without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those [who are] without law;
    [22] to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all [men], that I might by all means save some.
    [23] Now this I do for the gospel's sake, that I may be partaker of it with [you].

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    The circumcision and uncircumcision are two different groups, Thus two different gospels
    So far you haven't done very well with explaining the "two different gospels" thing. It's like you were totally unprepared for those types of questions. They're still outstanding, by the way... I'm hoping you'll try to answer them. If you can't I don't think you have any business preaching a "two different gospels" gospel.

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