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Thread: Jews And Gentiles Same Goal

  1. #361
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    It is not merely a "Jewish" thing and forgiveness of sin requires repentance. It is for all people, both Jew and Gentile, and without which we should surely perish.
    How does Peter say that sins are forgiven?

    "All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name"
    (Acts 10:43).

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Law on one side, and Grace on the other.

    "We shall be saved, even as they" means the Jews could be saved by Paul's Gospel (by grace through faith).
    Everyone who has ever been saved down through history has been saved by grace through faith, even those who lived under the law:

    "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Everyone who has ever been saved down through history has been saved by grace through faith, even those who lived under the law:

    "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).
    Evidently, you do not know how to 'Rightly Divide' the written word of God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    I'm beginning to wonder about you, Rosenritter. Right Divider is undoubtedly getting tired of having to repeat himself while seeing no willingness on your part to listen. In that, it's typical RD behaviour. Just as it's typical for those others of us you keep ignoring.

    Try to stop the nitpicking and respond to the points being made. Just my advice, mind you.

    I said
    There is only one gospel. The new testament. Jesus came to bring us one gospel, He gave part of it, the apostles gave another part of it, and the Holy Spirit teaches us the rest. Jesus shed His blood to put the gospel into affect.

    [Heb 9:16-18
    [16] For where there [is] a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
    [17] For a testament [is] in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.
    [18] Therefore not even the first [covenant] was dedicated without blood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    Evidently, you do not know how to 'Rightly Divide' the written word of God.
    So set me straight if you are able. In order to understand exactly how people down through the ages have been saved let us look at the following words of Paul where he speaks of the gospel of grace:

    "And now apart from law hath the righteousness of God been manifested, testified to by the law and the prophets, and this righteousness of God is through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those who believe, -- for there is no difference, for all did sin, and are come short of the glory of God --being declared righteous freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus"
    (Ro.3:21-24).

    Paul says that this righteousness of God which is apart from law is now being made known. Then he says that this righteousness of God comes to all who believe. This blessing is made possible because believers are "declared freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus."

    Now let us look at what is in "bold" here:

    "And now apart from law hath the righteousness of God been manifested, testified to by the law and the prophets, and this righteousness of God is through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those who believe..."

    Paul is saying that the truth of the believer receiving this imputed righteousness which is of God was revealed by him first but the Old Testament testifies that even in those times believers were also obtaining the imputed righteousness which is of God. And then Paul first uses Abraham as an example of believers who receive this blessing by faith:

    "What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness"
    (Ro.4:1-3).

    Then Paul moves on to David, who lived under the law:

    "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin"
    (Ro.4:4-8).

    Next, Paul made it plain that both the Jews and the Gentiles receive the same blessing in the same way:

    "Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also"
    (Ro.9-11).

    All believers down through history have received this blessedness which is apart from law or works. And then Paul makes it plain that both the Jews and the Gentiles are saved by faith on the principle of grace:

    "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all"
    (Ro.4:16).

    If you want to argue that those under the law could not be saved apart from works then they certainly do not understand that if salvation is of works then that salvation cannot be described as being of "grace."

    So where is your evidence that proves that salvation has not always been by grace through faith?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    So set me straight if you are able. In order to understand exactly how people down through the ages have been saved let us look at the following words of Paul where he speaks of the gospel of grace:

    "And now apart from law hath the righteousness of God been manifested, testified to by the law and the prophets, and this righteousness of God is through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those who believe, -- for there is no difference, for all did sin, and are come short of the glory of God --being declared righteous freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus"
    (Ro.3:21-24).

    Paul says that this righteousness of God which is apart from law is now being made known. Then he says that this righteousness of God comes to all who believe. This blessing is made possible because believers are "declared freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus."

    Now let us look at what is in "bold" here:

    "And now apart from law hath the righteousness of God been manifested, testified to by the law and the prophets, and this righteousness of God is through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those who believe..."

    Paul is saying that the truth of the believer receiving this imputed righteousness which is of God was revealed by him first but the Old Testament testifies that even in those times believers were also obtaining the imputed righteousness which is of God. And then Paul first uses Abraham as an example of believers who receive this blessing by faith:

    "What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness"
    (Ro.4:1-3).

    Then Paul moves on to David, who lived under the law:

    "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin"
    (Ro.4:4-8).

    Next, Paul made it plain that both the Jews and the Gentiles receive the same blessing in the same way:

    "Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also"
    (Ro.9-11).

    All believers down through history have received this blessedness which is apart from law or works. And then Paul makes it plain that both the Jews and the Gentiles are saved by faith on the principle of grace:

    "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all"
    (Ro.4:16).

    If you want to argue that those under the law could not be saved apart from works then they certainly do not understand that if salvation is of works then that salvation cannot be described as being of "grace."

    So where is your evidence that proves that salvation has not always been by grace through faith?

    I said
    I dont think you truly understand Grace. Grace is the law of Christ.

    Grace
    Rom 6:12-20
    12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
    13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
    14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
    15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
    16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
    17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.
    18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
    19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
    20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
    Eph 2:1-13
    1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
    2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
    3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
    4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
    5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
    6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
    7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
    8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
    9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
    10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
    11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh-- who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands--
    12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
    13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
    (NKJ)

    xxx Grace is uncilisited mercy. Uncilisited, we didnt request it, we didnt earn it, we didnt have any right to it. It was totally Gods choice and decision. To send Jesus to pay for our sins. If we accept Jesus we also accept the laws that Jesus brought with Him. For us to live by to prove we accept Jesus. It is our choice to turn to Jesus and follow Him.


    Titus 2:11-15
    11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
    12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,
    13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
    14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
    15 Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.
    (NKJ)

    xxx It is our choice to obey Jesus' commandments. It is God's choice whether or not to help us obey.


    James 4:7
    7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
    (NKJ)

    John 14:15
    15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.
    (NKJ)

    John 14:21
    21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."
    (NKJ)

    John 15:10
    10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
    (NKJ)

    Rom 9:14-16
    14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!
    15 For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
    16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
    (NKJ)

  9. #367
    Over 5000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    How does Peter say that sins are forgiven?

    "All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name"
    (Acts 10:43).
    Maybe we should ask Peter?

    Acts 2:38 KJV
    (38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Why the heck are people arguing against repentance?


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    Over 5000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Everyone who has ever been saved down through history has been saved by grace through faith, even those who lived under the law:
    "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).
    Thank you.

    P.s. Seems you are now earning GM's "one-liners"

    Evidently, you do not know how to 'Rightly Divide' the written word of God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Maybe we should ask Peter?

    Acts 2:38 KJV
    (38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Why the heck are people arguing against repentance?

    I said
    Some of the people in here dont really understand repentance. I have went around and around with them about this. One guy had been in the bible for years and he told me he did repent when he started. Away back when. They dont understand the truth will bring out repentance daily. And we need it. I asked him why he didnt repent daily when God says He will forgive us 490 times a day if we repent. He never answered my question.

    [Mat 18:21-22
    [21] Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
    [22] Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Maybe we should ask Peter?

    Acts 2:38 KJV
    (38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Why the heck are people arguing against repentance?

    Who is Peter asking to repent and what are they to repent of?

    Act 2:36-38 KJV Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (37) Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    (Hint: the correct answers are Israel and the rejection of Jesus Christ).
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Who is Peter asking to repent and what are they to repent of?

    Act 2:36-38 KJV Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (37) Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    (Hint: the correct answers are Israel and the rejection of Jesus Christ).
    I said
    Everybody. Everybody has something to repent of daily.
    [Act 26:15-17, 19-23
    [15] "So I said, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said, 'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.
    [16] 'But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you.
    [17] 'I will deliver you from the [Jewish] people, as well as [from] the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, ...
    [19] "Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision,
    [20] "but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.
    [21] "For these reasons the Jews seized me in the temple and tried to kill [me].
    [22] "Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come--
    [23] "that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the [Jewish] people and to the Gentiles."

    Even if it is the fact that you dont know what your sin is, because your doing it.

    [1Jo 1:8-10
    [8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    [9] If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    [10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    Everybody. Everybody has something to repent of daily.
    Context poor confused Squeaky.

    Acts 2:38 is specifically about ONE particular thing and not everything under the sun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Context poor confused Squeaky.

    Acts 2:38 is specifically about ONE particular thing and not everything under the sun.
    I said
    I know. I its just another case where Peter and Paul was teaching the same thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    I know. I its just another case where Peter and Paul was teaching the same thing.
    Poor clueless Squeaky. Even when shown from the scripture what it plainly says... he does not understand a thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    I know. I its just another case where Peter and Paul was teaching the same thing.
    It sure is SAD to see 'Squeaky' being caught up in an 'Maelstrom of ignorance.' I wish him well.

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