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Thread: Jews And Gentiles Same Goal

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    Over 4000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Even by your twisted standard that tosses out half the scripture at any given time, who is Paul speaking to here?

    2 Corinthians 7:10 KJV
    (10) For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
    1) Peter was not speaking to Israel. He was speaking to his audience which included at least three thousand souls, probably more, but somewhat less than Israel. Since you want to play games and claim that scripture is only directed to certain people, let's be just as specific.

    2) Those to whom Peter preached needed to repent of all sin, not only a certain sin as you allege and/or imply. The particular sin that was used to grab their attention was the rejection and crucifixion of the prophesied Messiah and their LORD. Even then it is likely that most of the people in the audience had nothing to do with the crucifixion, so I suppose that they had nothing to repent of, by your measure?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Something like "I repented once and that was enough and I'll never do it again?"
    Give your definition of repent.

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  4. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    He doesn't always strictly use King James.

    Spoiler
    Acts 10:43 Tyndale
    (43) To him geve all the Prophetes witnes that thorowe his name shall receave remission of synnes all that beleve in him.

    Acts 10:43 Bishops
    (43) To hym geue all the prophetes witnesse, that through his name whosoeuer beleueth in hym, shall receaue remission of sinnes.

    Acts 10:43 Geneva
    (43) To him also giue all the Prophets witnesse, that through his Name all that beleeue in him, shall receiue remission of sinnes.


    Those three (above) are almost the same as the King James and they also used the word remission. It seems to be a synonym.
    It might seem to be a synonym, but the remission of sins was used by Peter when he was addressing "all the house of Israel". Acts 2:36 Acts 2:38

    When cancer goes into remission it is not eradicated. Peter speaks of the "times of refreshing" that their sins would be blotted out. So, seems like there is a difference to me.

    Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

    Paul, on the other hand, preaches forgiveness of sin when we believe. There is no waiting.

    Colossians 1:14 Colossians 2:13 Ephesians 4:32

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  6. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    1) Peter was not speaking to Israel. He was speaking to his audience which included at least three thousand souls, probably more, but somewhat less than Israel. Since you want to play games and claim that scripture is only directed to certain people, let's be just as specific.

    2) Those to whom Peter preached needed to repent of all sin, not only a certain sin as you allege and/or imply. The particular sin that was used to grab their attention was the rejection and crucifixion of the prophesied Messiah and their LORD. Even then it is likely that most of the people in the audience had nothing to do with the crucifixion, so I suppose that they had nothing to repent of, by your measure?
    Where do you see "repent of sins"? Or where do you see repent of all sins?

    I'm thinking your understanding of repentance is off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ has nothing to do with how they spoke to the Jews? Are you serious? You expected them to simply forget these words that were used to bring them to baptism?
    Try reading what I wrote, and what I was referring to before you go off half cocked.

    Spoiler
    Acts 2:21-32 KJV
    (21) And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    (22) Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
    (23) Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
    (24) Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
    (25) For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
    (26) Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
    (27) Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
    (28) Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
    (29) Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
    (30) Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
    (31) He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
    (32) This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

    Acts 2:36-38 KJV
    (36) Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
    (37) Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
    (38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.



    How am I supposed to take anything you say seriously?
    Try. I have to try with you.


    Do you know what "Grace" means (it seems not.)
    I do. Do you know what "repent" means?


    For that matter, why am I listening to anyone who refuses to give a clear answer to questions like these?

    1. Do attempt to fulfill through faith and practice "Love God" and does this change manifest itself in your life?
    2. Do attempt to fulfill through faith and practice "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and does this change manifest itself in your life?
    3. Do attempt to fulfill through faith and practice "Love thy enemies" and does this change manifest itself in your life?
    4. Do attempt to fulfill through faith and practice "Love one another" and does this change manifest itself in your life?

    These are the questions you insist I answer?

    Fine. No, I do not attempt to do what I know only God can do in and through me.

    Are you suggesting I boast about how wonderful I am?

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  10. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Yes, really. Here Paul makes it plain that those who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith:

    "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).

    Since it is by grace then it cannot be of works. Paul also wrote the following:

    "since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith"
    (Ro.3:30).

    The testimony of Peter concerning his own salvation bears witness to the fact that he was saved by the grace of God in the same way as the Gentiles:

    "God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us...We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are" (Acts 15:8,11).
    Jerry, don't stop at the first word when you quote me. You miss the entire point I was making. And I'm surprised since you seem quite adept when you speak about the mystery Paul preached.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    I didn't change it. It came that way with the translation which I used. In both cases they mean exactly the same thing.
    So you're saying the times of refreshing means nothing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Give your definition of repent.
    I said
    [2Co 7:8-11
    [8] For even if I made you sorry with my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it. For I perceive that the same epistle made you sorry, though only for a while.
    [9] Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing.
    [10] For godly sorrow produces repentance [leading] to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.
    [11] For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, [what] clearing [of yourselves], [what] indignation, [what] fear, [what] vehement desire, [what] zeal, [what] vindication! In all [things] you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

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    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    [2Co 7:8-11
    [8] For even if I made you sorry with my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it. For I perceive that the same epistle made you sorry, though only for a while.
    [9] Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing.
    [10] For godly sorrow produces repentance [leading] to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.
    [11] For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, [what] clearing [of yourselves], [what] indignation, [what] fear, [what] vehement desire, [what] zeal, [what] vindication! In all [things] you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
    That's not a definition of repentance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    That's not a definition of repentance.
    I said
    Yes it is.
    but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner,

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    So you're saying the times of refreshing means nothing?
    You asked me why I changed the word "remission" to "forgiveness" and I told you that the translation I quoted used the word "forgiveness" and not "remission." What I said had nothing at all to do with the times of refreshing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Jerry, don't stop at the first word when you quote me. You miss the entire point I was making. And I'm surprised since you seem quite adept when you speak about the mystery Paul preached.
    All you did was to try to change the subject, which is the fact that in the verse I quoted Paul said that those who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith.

    Do you deny that the Jews who lived under the law were saved in that way?

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    Over 4000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Give your definition of repent.
    It has a basic meaning of a change, often with a connotation of regret. Specific meaning may vary depending on biblical context. Usually when we speak of "repent" and "repentance" it is with regard to repentance from sin meaning that it is a sincere and contrite recognition of the heart of the problem, and a willingness to change from sin or sinfulness.

    The "I repented once and I'm never doing that again" meme is a demonstration of an insincere unrepentant spirit. Godly repentance is an ongoing change in our spirit; a Christian does not "repent once and get it over with" as we are not yet perfect. Note how Jesus speaks to these churches (of Christ) admonishing them to repent.

    Revelation 2:4-5 KJV
    (4) Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
    (5) Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
    Spoiler
    Revelation 2:16 KJV
    (16) Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

    Revelation 3:3 KJV
    (3) Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

    Revelation 3:19 KJV
    (19) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

    To borrow words from John, if we say we have no sin (thus no need to repent) we are a liar, and the truth is not in us.

    1 John 1:8-10 KJV
    (8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    (9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    (10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

    2 Corinthians 7:10 KJV
    (10) For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

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    Over 4000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    It might seem to be a synonym, but the remission of sins was used by Peter when he was addressing "all the house of Israel". Acts 2:36 Acts 2:38

    When cancer goes into remission it is not eradicated. Peter speaks of the "times of refreshing" that their sins would be blotted out. So, seems like there is a difference to me.
    Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

    Paul, on the other hand, preaches forgiveness of sin when we believe. There is no waiting.

    Colossians 1:14 Colossians 2:13 Ephesians 4:32
    Strong's concordance lists it as a synonym. Both Forgiveness and Remission are translated from the same word. I don't see justification for dividing it into a "not quite remitted" vs "totally forgiven" difference like that.


    G859
    ἄφεσις
    aphesis
    af'-es-is
    From G863; freedom; (figuratively) pardon: - deliverance, forgiveness, liberty, remission.


    Acts 10:42-44 KJV
    (42) And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
    (43) To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
    (44) While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

    Considering the audience of this forum, I'll insert the reminder that Peter is speaking to Cornelius, the Gentile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    It has a basic meaning of a change, often with a connotation of regret. Specific meaning may vary depending on biblical context.
    Indeed!

    The context of Acts 2:38 is clear and is speaking of a SPECIFIC thing that they needed to repent of. Verse 36 defined the context for this repentance.

    Act 2:36-38 KJV Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (37) Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Verse 37 shows that they understood "NOW when THEY had HEARD THIS".

    The REPENT in verse 38 refers to what THEY has DONE as defined in verse 36.

    It ain't rocket surgery.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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