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Thread: Should Children Be Executed If They've...

  1. #31
    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    How much does an innocent life cost?
    Non sequitur.

    Your contention was that life imprisonment would be more expensive than execution. Executions could cost as much as it takes to get enough rocks on the perp, obviously far cheaper than a lifetime of food, accommodation and entertainment.

    There has never been a legal system in Human history where innocents were not falsely convicted. If you think it is not possible to produce two witnesses to convict an innocent man and throw the first rock, you have never studied the hanging times of Jim Crow laws.


    These are arguments from emotion and consequence. Try something rational.

    I will happily support your idea of a legal system when you can demonstrate a 100% guarantee that the innocent will be protected.
    I will happily support your ideas if you can guarantee no guilty men go free.
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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Non sequitur.

    Your contention was that life imprisonment would be more expensive than execution. Executions could cost as much as it takes to get enough rocks on the perp, obviously far cheaper than a lifetime of food, accommodation, and entertainment.
    You left out the critical bit. I said in a legal system that has adequate safeguards to protect the innocent, life without parole is cheaper. You can't ignore the innocent argument just because it is inconvenient.



    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    These are arguments from emotion and consequence. Try something rational.
    You can say that saving innocent lives from unjust execution at the hands of the state is emotional but it is still a relevant argument. If you cannot simply ignore it. A guilty person may go free and he may take innocent lives but that blood is on his head and hands. If we as a society execute an innocent person, that life and blood are on our heads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    I will happily support your ideas if you can guarantee no guilty men go free.
    By that standard, your system is not acceptable either, as there is no guarantee that guilty men will not go free with it. What if there is only one witness, what if there are no witnesses? You are only offering to convict more of the guilty not all of them and to do so by unjustly killing the innocent.

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  5. #33
    Member of the 10 year club on TOL!! CabinetMaker's Avatar
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    Committing a capitol crime requires intent. A soldier going to war has the intent to kill the enemy. Is he guilty of murder when he does so? A 3 year old playing with a loaded gun kills a family member. How do you prove a 3 year old had the intent to murder the family member? A woman lives in extreme abuse for years and that abuse is now being directed towards her children. She finally kills her abuser. Is she guilty of murder or is it self defense and defense of her children?

    When does a person poses the ability to form criminal intent? This is an extremely difficult question to answer. I don't know if any magic age that works for everybody. Some people, such as serial killers, can start to show signs of what they will become at very early ages when they start to torture and kill animals.

    In short, I cannot see any reasonable argument for executing young children for capitol offenses.
    Last edited by CabinetMaker; September 17th, 2018 at 10:16 AM.
    Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    What are my fruits today?

    Cityboy With Horses A blog about what happens when you say, "I Promise"

    "Moral standards" are a lot like lighthouses: they exist to help us stay on course as we sail through life. But we have to steer BY them, but not directly AT them. Lest we end up marooned on the shoals of perpetual self-righteousness.

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  7. #34
    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Let's be fair, anyone who thinks a baby could rightly be executed is either retarded or...



    No, I got nothing else. He's retarded.

    And this from the type who endorse baby-killing.
    You must be suffering from a lack of reading comprehension if you think that was actually said. The example of a baby was used to affirm just how pathetic it is to argue that it's righteous to execute young children as adults.
    Well this is fun isn't it?


  8. #35
    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    God said to execute capital criminals.
    And not to eat shellfish. All sorts of things, really. He held Israel to some tough standards, that's for certain. We don't execute our criminals here for the most part, though it varies by state and more states than not still have it on the books.

    We let too many guilty people go free, which has led to the crime epidemic.
    You should change your system then. It's different over here. And we don't have a crime epidemic here either. What sort of hell-hole state do you live in? Whatever your nation of origin and residence, I hope you get a handle on it without killing a lot of people.

    Capital criminals should be executed upon conviction regardless of their age.
    What about lower case killers?

    That way, people will learn that murder is bad and it won't happen.
    Cause that's really at the heart of it. People just don't realize how bad murder is...

    Or if it does, it will be shocking.
    Nothing worse than the old, boring, pedestrian murders.

    That's because you hate justice and have no idea what the law is or what it's for.
    Nah, though I am amused by idiotic assumption and faux argument, which makes your post a win/win.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    And not to eat shellfish.
    Nope. He actually said: "Get up, kill and eat" and "do not call unclean that which has been made clean."

    Shellfish rules changed.

    Capital punishment did not.

    We don't have a crime epidemic here.




    Wait, that's not overly funny, is it?

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  12. #37
    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Nope. He actually said: "Get up, kill and eat" and "do not call unclean that which has been made clean."
    You mean later. First you couldn't eat it. Then you could.

    Shellfish rules changed.
    You think?

    Capital punishment did not.
    I believe you believe that.

    I believe our relationship to the law isn't the relationship Israel had under the Mosaic law.

    Wait, that's not overly funny, is it?
    No, but then no one said it is.

    Maybe it's a culture thing. Is that funny where you live? If so is it a part of an epidemic?

    And what's the over/under on JR liking it if you just post some punctuation?

    Speaking of faux outrage and gravity:
    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post


    How much does a rock cost?
    You just can't get out of your own way, can you?
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







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  14. #38
    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    I believe you believe that.
    That's nice.

    We prefer the law. Words in stone. They don't care what you believe.

    I believe our relationship to the law isn't the relationship Israel had under the Mosaic law.
    That's right. Salvation is no longer of Israel; it is now of grace.

    However, salvation is a separate topic; we are talking about the law.

    Jesus said the law would not pass away. Do you think He lied? Or maybe there is a difference between shellfish and murder. We could go have a look at the passages that deal with unclean animals test your assertions about what the law is about.

    Or we could just ignore your "beliefs" and stick with God's word, you know: Justice.

    No, but then no one said it is.Maybe it's a culture thing. Is that funny where you live? If so is it a part of an epidemic?And what's the over/under on JR liking it if you just post some punctuation?
    Not too bright, are you.

    It's laughable that you would deny that the US had a murder epidemic. You're laughable; the murder epidemic is not.

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  16. #39
    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    Speaking of faux outrage and gravity:You just can't get out of your own way, can you?
    What?

    Are you upset now?

    Or do you just not understand?

    Whatsisname says that executing a murderer is more expensive than feeding, housing and entertaining him for the rest of his life. That's laughable, even if he is comparing your system to your system.

    By contrast to the decades a perp in Texas can spend on death row, not to mention lawyers, the Bible endorses a swift and painful execution, ie, rocks shortly after conviction.

    Nothing expensive about rocks.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    What?

    Are you upset now?
    No. Do you want me to be or just hope for it?

    Or do you just not understand?

    Whatsisname says that executing a murderer is more expensive than feeding, housing and entertaining him for the rest of his life. That's laughable, even if he is comparing your system to your system.
    I don't really care how you contort to keep up the pretext that your faux indignation about my taking your efforts lightly is one thing and you mocking within the same conversational topic is another.

    You threw that rock in a glass house.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Not too bright, are you.
    Well, I do engage your "look at me" efforts now and again, so there is an argument on your side of it.

    And that has to feel like a first for you.

    It's laughable that you would deny that the US had a murder epidemic.
    Just noting your habit of pretending to speak for a population you aren't a member of as though you were and a thing you don't appear to have much of a grasp regarding as though you do.

    I've actually set out the murder statistics prior. We have a mass violence/shooting problem that is unprecedented, but our murder rates are actually much lower than they were for decades, mostly owing to the Baby Boomers aging. Here's a link to an article from ABC last year entitled "Murder Rate Drops to 33 Year Low." The article notes that the 80s saw an explosion on that count driven by drugs. Overall last year serious crimes fell by 20%. LINK

    You're laughable
    That's not how you spell laudable, but it is how you illustrate envious.

    the murder epidemic is not.
    I agree there is not a murder epidemic. Funny way for you to write it though. Foreigners.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    No. Do you want me to be or just hope for it?I don't really care how you contort to keep up the pretext that your faux indignation about my taking your efforts lightly is one thing and you mocking within the same conversational topic is another.You threw that rock in a glass house.


    Pass.

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  24. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    I've actually set out the murder statistics prior. We have a mass violence/shooting problem that is unprecedented, but our murder rates are actually much lower than they were for decades, mostly owing to the Baby Boomers aging. Here's a link to an article from ABC last year entitled "Murder Rate Drops to 33 Year Low." The article notes that the 80s saw an explosion on that count driven by drugs. Overall last year serious crimes fell by 20%. LINK
    Yay. One murder every half hour. There's dancing in the streets.

    Foreigners.
    It is you who is the outsider here, racist.

    Also, you don't seem to have a very good grasp of simple English.

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    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
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  26. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    What?

    Are you upset now?

    Or do you just not understand?

    Whatsisname says that executing a murderer is more expensive than feeding, housing and entertaining him for the rest of his life. That's laughable, even if he is comparing your system to your system.

    By contrast to the decades a perp in Texas can spend on death row, not to mention lawyers, the Bible endorses a swift and painful execution, ie, rocks shortly after conviction.

    Nothing expensive about rocks.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    Really?

    "Each death penalty case in Texas costs taxpayers about $2.3 million. That is about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years. ("Executions Cost Texas Millions," Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992)."
    https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-d...financialfacts

  27. #45
    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    Really?

    "Each death penalty case in Texas costs taxpayers about $2.3 million. That is about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years. ("Executions Cost Texas Millions," Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992)."
    https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-d...financialfacts
    I don't care how much you spend on lawyers. It's a stupid argument. Rocks are free.

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    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
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    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

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