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Thread: Is dispensational theology correct?

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    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    Is dispensational theology correct?

    Is Romans through Philemon written specifically to the church, the Gospel of the Grace of God or is the Gospel of the Kingdom for us?
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Is Romans through Philemon written specifically to the church, the Gospel of the Grace of God or is the Gospel of the Kingdom for us?
    Paul's epistle which is traditionally known as "the First Epistle to the Corinthians" was not just addressed to those of the church at Corinth but also to "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord":

    "Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours" (1 Cor.1:1-2).

    The words found in this epistle are addressed to every single believer who lived at the time when it was written. John Nelson Darby, often called the father of modern dispensationalism, understood that to be true, writing the following:

    "He addresses the assembly of God at Corinth, adding a character (the application of which is evident when we consider the contents of the epistle) 'sanctified in Christ Jesus.' Afterwards the universality of the application of the doctrine and instructions of the epistle, and of its authority over all Christians, wherever they might be, is brought forward in this address" (John Nelson Darby, Commentary at 1 Corinthians 1:2).

    With these things in mind, we can understand what Paul said later in the same epistle applied to every single believer when the epistle was written:

    "For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit"
    (1 Cor.12:13).

    When Paul used the words "are we ALL baptized into one Body" that can only mean that the Twelve were included and therefore they are members of the Body of Christ. Therefore, we can understand that the doctrine found in the Hebrew epistles applies to those in the Body and contain valuable information for those in the Body.

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    Over 1500 post club Faither's Avatar
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    No theology is correct . Only being sealed with the Spirit of Christ and as the result have the mind of Christ is correct .

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    TOL Subscriber Grosnick Marowbe's Avatar
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    During Christ's earthly walk, He and His disciples preached the 'Kingdom Gospel.' (Matthew 10:5 "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:" The Apostle Paul and his followers preached the 'Gospel of the grace of God.' (Ephesians 2:8) "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    During Christ's earthly walk, He and His disciples preached the 'Kingdom Gospel.' (Matthew 10:5 "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:" The Apostle Paul and his followers preached the 'Gospel of the grace of God.' (Ephesians 2:8) "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
    Yes, and even the saved who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith:

    "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all"
    (Ro.4:16).

    Besides that, in his epistles Peter's no longer preached the "gospel of the kingdom" but instead the gospel which Paul referred to as "the preaching of the Cross":


    "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed...Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot"
    (1 Pet.2:24, 1:18-19).

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    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Yes, and even the saved who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith:

    "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all"
    (Ro.4:16).

    Besides that, in his epistles Peter's no longer preached the "gospel of the kingdom" but instead the gospel which Paul referred to as "the preaching of the Cross":


    "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed...Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot"
    (1 Pet.2:24, 1:18-19).
    Where here does he preach the death , burial and resurrection of Jesus?
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Yes, and even the saved who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith:

    "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all"
    (Ro.4:16).

    Besides that, in his epistles Peter's no longer preached the "gospel of the kingdom" but instead the gospel which Paul referred to as "the preaching of the Cross":


    "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed...Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot"
    (1 Pet.2:24, 1:18-19).
    Acts 20:24 "But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God."

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    Acts 20:24 "But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God."
    Yes, there Paul speaks of the stewardship to preach the gospel of grace. And Peter and those who received his epistle were given the same stewardship:

    "Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms" (1 Pet.4:10).

    Here Peter speaks of the same gospel:

    "Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven" (1 Pet.1:10-12).

    Here Peter is speaking about the gospel which brings salvation and which is in regard to "grace" and the "sufferings" of the Lord Jesus. Besides that, he also says that the gospel is preached with the Holy Spirit (1 Thess.1:5). And then he speaks of the heart and soul of the gospel of grace:

    "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1:18-19).

    All this evidence points to the gospel of grace and not to the gospel of the kingdom.

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Where here does he preach the death , burial and resurrection of Jesus?
    He preached that even before Israel was temporarily cast (Acts 2:29-32) so there is little doubt that he would continue to preach those truths.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Yes, there Paul speaks of the stewardship to preach the gospel of grace. And Peter and those who received his epistle were given the same stewardship:
    "Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of Godís grace in its various forms" (1 Pet.4:10).
    So there was nothing unique about Paul's stewardship?



    You're crazy if you believe that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    So there was nothing unique about Paul's stewardship?



    You're crazy if you believe that.
    Yep. The difference is obvious.

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    The Apostle Paul was chosen to be the 'Apostle to the Gentiles' that cannot be denied. Paul had a different Gospel to preach other than, what the other Disciples (those who preached, along with the Lord Jesus Christ, the Kingdom Gospel to the House of Israel.) were preaching to the Jews. Paul preached, 'salvation through faith without works.' The Gentiles NEVER were under the Law nor did they receive it.

    Galatians 2:7-8 "But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
    (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
    Last edited by Grosnick Marowbe; September 16th, 2018 at 03:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    The Apostle Paul was chosen to be the 'Apostle to the Gentiles' that cannot be denied. Paul had a different Gospel to preach other than, what the other Disciples (those who preached, along with the Lord Jesus Christ, the Kingdom Gospel to the House of Israel.) were preaching to the Jews. Paul preached, 'salvation through faith without works.' The Gentiles NEVER were under the Law nor did they receive it.

    Galatians 2:7-8 "But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
    (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
    Another thing which cannot be denied is the fact that the nation of Israel was temporaily set aside and Paul tells us exactly what happened to the believing remnant out of Israel:

    "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby" (Eph.2:13-16).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    So there was nothing unique about Paul's stewardship?
    Paul was the first to receive the gospel of grace and he was the first to preach it. However, not long after Paul was converted on the Damascus road he preached the following message to the Jews:

    "And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.....proving that this is the very Christ" (Acts 9:20,22).

    At that time Paul had not yet received the gospel which he was to preach among the Gentiles. He wrote the following:

    "But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus" (Gal.1:15-17).

    When Paul received a gospel from the Lord Jesus on the Damascus road he immediately went to Damascus (Acts 9:6-8). But when he received the gospel which he preached among the Gentiles he went immediately into Arabia. That can only mean that two different gospels were preached during the Acts period.

    Paul's commission underwent a change and so did the commission originally given to the Twelve. They were no longer preaching the gospel of the kingdom but instead the good news Paul described as "the preaching of the Cross":

    "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree
    , that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed...Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot"
    (1 Pet.2:24, 1:18-19).

    You're crazy if you believe that is the gospel of the kingdom!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Paul was the first to receive the gospel of grace and he was the first to preach it. However, not long after Paul was converted on the Damascus road he preached the following message to the Jews:

    "And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.....proving that this is the very Christ" (Acts 9:20,22).

    At that time Paul had not yet received the gospel which he was to preach among the Gentiles. He wrote the following:
    "But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus" (Gal.1:15-17).

    When Paul received a gospel from the Lord Jesus on the Damascus road he immediately went to Damascus (Acts 9:6-8). But when he received the gospel which he preached among the Gentiles he went immediately into Arabia. That can only mean that two different gospels were preached during the Acts period.
    You always claim yours is the only possible understanding. You're wrong about that too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Paul's commission underwent a change and so did the commission originally given to the Twelve. They were no longer preaching the gospel of the kingdom but instead the good news Paul described as "the preaching of the Cross":

    "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree
    , that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed...Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot"
    (1 Pet.2:24, 1:18-19).

    You're crazy if you believe that is the gospel of the kingdom!
    Please document the changing of the commissions of Paul and the twelve.

    No, their commissions did NOT "change".

    The TWELVE were given authority in the kingdom to judge the TWELVE tribes of Israel. Paul was never given such an authority.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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