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Thread: The world Christ didn't Pray for !

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    Dear Nanja: You and your mentor are incredible reservoirs! The following will not apply to you both, but for the rest of us>>>

    Romans Chapter 5=

    This doesn't mean, of course, that we have only a hope of future joys - we can be full of joy here and now even in our trials and troubles. Taken in the right spirit these very things will give us patient endurance; this in turn will develop a mature character, and a character of this sort produces a steady hope, a hope that will never disappoint us. Already we have some experience of the love of God flooding through our hearts by the Holy Spirit given to us.

    And we can see that it was while we were powerless to help ourselves that Christ died for sinful men. In human experience it is a rare thing for one man to give his life for another, even if the latter be a good man, though there have been a few who have had the courage to do it. Yet the proof of God's amazing love is this: that it was while we were sinners that Christ died for us.

    Moreover, if he did that for us while we were sinners, now that we are men justified by the shedding of his blood, what reason have we to fear the wrath of God? If, while we were his enemies, Christ reconciled us to God by dying for us, surely now that we are reconciled we may be perfectly certain of our salvation through his living in us. Nor, I am sure, is this a matter of bare salvation - we may hold our heads high in the light of God's love because of the reconciliation which Christ has made.

    This, then, is what happened. Sin made its entry into the world through one man, and through sin, death. The entail of sin and death passed on to the whole human race, and no one could break it for no one was himself free from sin.

    Sin, you see, was in the world long before the Law, though I suppose, technically speaking, it was not "sin" where there was no law to define it. Nevertheless death, the complement of sin, held sway over mankind from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sin was quite unlike Adam's. Adam, the first man, corresponds in some degree to the man who has to come.

    But the gift of God through Christ is a very different matter from the "account rendered" through the sin of Adam. For while as a result of one man's sin death by natural consequence became the common lot of men, it was by the generosity of God, the free giving of the grace of one man Jesus Christ, that the love of God overflowed for the benefit of all men.

    Nor is the effect of God's gift the same as the effect of that one man's sin. For in the one case one man's sin brought its inevitable judgment, and the result was condemnation. But, in the other, countless men's sins are met with the free gift of grace, and the result is justification before God.

    For if one man's offence meant that men should be slaves to death all their lives, it is a far greater thing that through another man, Jesus Christ, men by their acceptance of his more than sufficient grace and righteousness, should live all their lives like kings!

    We see, then, that as one act of sin exposed the whole race of men to God's judgment and condemnation, so one act of perfect righteousness presents all men freely acquitted in the sight of God. One man's disobedience placed all men under the threat of condemnation, but one man's obedience has the power to present all men righteous before God.

    Now we find that the Law keeps slipping into the picture to point the vast extent of sin. Yet, though sin is shown to be wide and deep, thank God his grace is wider and deeper still! The whole outlook changes - sin used to be the master of men and in the end handed them over to death: now grace is the ruling factor, with righteousness as its purpose and its end the bringing of men to the eternal life of God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    TY for that Scripture ! And yes, it's because they belonged to Christ from Everlasting, even before they Believed, that they were given hearing ears Prov. 20:12 in time when they were Born of God to Hear the Word of the Gospel John 8:47a and Believe Gal. 5:22.
    Amen Sister it was for that reason they were given spiritual ears to hear spiritually the gospel of their salvation Eph 1:13

    13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

    "ye heard the gospel of your salvation ye believed"

    These were some Christ prayed for in Jn 17:20

    20 Neither pray I for these alone[In Vs 9], but for them also which shall believe on me through their word
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLinen View Post
    Dear Nanja: You and your mentor are incredible reservoirs! The following will not apply to you both, but for the rest of us>>>

    Romans Chapter 5=

    This doesn't mean, of course, that we have only a hope of future joys - we can be full of joy here and now even in our trials and troubles. Taken in the right spirit these very things will give us patient endurance; this in turn will develop a mature character, and a character of this sort produces a steady hope, a hope that will never disappoint us. Already we have some experience of the love of God flooding through our hearts by the Holy Spirit given to us.

    And we can see that it was while we were powerless to help ourselves that Christ died for sinful men. In human experience it is a rare thing for one man to give his life for another, even if the latter be a good man, though there have been a few who have had the courage to do it. Yet the proof of God's amazing love is this: that it was while we were sinners that Christ died for us.

    Moreover, if he did that for us while we were sinners, now that we are men justified by the shedding of his blood, what reason have we to fear the wrath of God? If, while we were his enemies, Christ reconciled us to God by dying for us, surely now that we are reconciled we may be perfectly certain of our salvation through his living in us. Nor, I am sure, is this a matter of bare salvation - we may hold our heads high in the light of God's love because of the reconciliation which Christ has made.

    This, then, is what happened. Sin made its entry into the world through one man, and through sin, death. The entail of sin and death passed on to the whole human race, and no one could break it for no one was himself free from sin.

    Sin, you see, was in the world long before the Law, though I suppose, technically speaking, it was not "sin" where there was no law to define it. Nevertheless death, the complement of sin, held sway over mankind from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sin was quite unlike Adam's. Adam, the first man, corresponds in some degree to the man who has to come.

    But the gift of God through Christ is a very different matter from the "account rendered" through the sin of Adam. For while as a result of one man's sin death by natural consequence became the common lot of men, it was by the generosity of God, the free giving of the grace of one man Jesus Christ, that the love of God overflowed for the benefit of all men.

    Nor is the effect of God's gift the same as the effect of that one man's sin. For in the one case one man's sin brought its inevitable judgment, and the result was condemnation. But, in the other, countless men's sins are met with the free gift of grace, and the result is justification before God.

    For if one man's offence meant that men should be slaves to death all their lives, it is a far greater thing that through another man, Jesus Christ, men by their acceptance of his more than sufficient grace and righteousness, should live all their lives like kings!

    We see, then, that as one act of sin exposed the whole race of men to God's judgment and condemnation, so one act of perfect righteousness presents all men freely acquitted in the sight of God. One man's disobedience placed all men under the threat of condemnation, but one man's obedience has the power to present all men righteous before God.

    Now we find that the Law keeps slipping into the picture to point the vast extent of sin. Yet, though sin is shown to be wide and deep, thank God his grace is wider and deeper still! The whole outlook changes - sin used to be the master of men and in the end handed them over to death: now grace is the ruling factor, with righteousness as its purpose and its end the bringing of men to the eternal life of God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
    Long rabbit trail from post theme. According to Jn 17:9 is there a world of people Christ didnt pray for ? Yes or No
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Amen Sister it was for that reason they were given spiritual ears to hear spiritually the gospel of their salvation Eph 1:13

    13 [FONT="]In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,[/FONT]

    "ye heard the gospel of your salvation ye believed"

    These were some Christ prayed for in Jn 17:20

    20 [FONT="]Neither pray I for these alone[In Vs 9], [/FONT]but for them also which shall believe on me through their word

    Exactly Brother !
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Long rabbit trail from post theme. According to Jn 17:9 is there a world of people Christ didnt pray for ? Yes or No
    Dear Mentor: There are few who would call the words of St. Paul a "rabbit trail" but you are such an incredible teacher we will leave it there!

    "I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine" (John 17:9)

    If you think for a nano-second God does not will, yes "will", all mankind to be saved you are sadly mistaken with a capital "S". The elect, known also as the "especially", hold a unique place in the Father & Son, & thus the "do not", however, in the same chapter we also read: "neither do I pray for these alone."

    It becomes painfully obvious you neither grasp the difference between "malista" & "monon". Do you know what alone means?

    Hint:

    Monon is the neuter of monos.

    "I do not pray for these alone"

    "Alone=

    Only / exclusively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLinen View Post
    Dear Mentor: There are few who would call the words of St. Paul a "rabbit trail" but you are such an incredible teacher we will leave it there!

    "I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine" (John 17:9)

    If you think for a nano-second God does not will, yes "will", all mankind to be saved you are sadly mistaken with a capital "S". The elect, known also as the "especially", hold a unique place in the Father & Son, & thus the "do not", however, in the same chapter we also read: "neither do I pray for these alone."

    It becomes painfully obvious you neither grasp the difference between "malista" & "monon". Do you know what alone means?

    Hint:

    Monon is the neuter of monos.

    "I do not pray for these alone"

    "Alone=

    Only / exclusively.
    Long rabbit trail from post theme. According to Jn 17:9 is there a world of people Christ didnt pray for ? Yes or No
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to beloved57 For Your Post:

    MennoSota (September 16th, 2018),Nanja (September 17th, 2018)

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    Dear Busted one, AKA broken one: my answer to you stands. If you persist in a limited view of Jesus Christ & the Glorious Father, another Dept. must come to your rescue.

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    @beloved57, you are entirely correct. Jesus prayer is for those whom the Father has given him, even to this day and until the last of the elect are redeemed.
    John 17:1-26
    [1]After saying all these things, Jesus looked up to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son so he can give glory back to you.
    [2]For you have given him authority over everyone. He gives eternal life to each one you have given him.
    [3]And this is the way to have eternal life—to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth.
    [4]I brought glory to you here on earth by completing the work you gave me to do.
    [5]Now, Father, bring me into the glory we shared before the world began.
    [6]“I have revealed you to the ones you gave me from this world. They were always yours. You gave them to me, and they have kept your word.
    [7]Now they know that everything I have is a gift from you,
    [8]for I have passed on to them the message you gave me. They accepted it and know that I came from you, and they believe you sent me.
    [9]“My prayer is not for the world, but for those you have given me, because they belong to you.
    [10]All who are mine belong to you, and you have given them to me, so they bring me glory.
    [11]Now I am departing from the world; they are staying in this world, but I am coming to you. Holy Father, you have given me your name; now protect them by the power of your name so that they will be united just as we are.
    [12]During my time here, I protected them by the power of the name you gave me. I guarded them so that not one was lost, except the one headed for destruction, as the Scriptures foretold.
    [13]“Now I am coming to you. I told them many things while I was with them in this world so they would be filled with my joy.
    [14]I have given them your word. And the world hates them because they do not belong to the world, just as I do not belong to the world.
    [15]I’m not asking you to take them out of the world, but to keep them safe from the evil one.
    [16]They do not belong to this world any more than I do.
    [17]Make them holy by your truth; teach them your word, which is truth.
    [18]Just as you sent me into the world, I am sending them into the world.
    [19]And I give myself as a holy sacrifice for them so they can be made holy by your truth.
    [20]“I am praying not only for these disciples but also for all who will ever believe in me through their message.
    [21]I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one—as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me.
    [22]“I have given them the glory you gave me, so they may be one as we are one.
    [23]I am in them and you are in me. May they experience such perfect unity that the world will know that you sent me and that you love them as much as you love me.
    [24]Father, I want these whom you have given me to be with me where I am. Then they can see all the glory you gave me because you loved me even before the world began!
    [25]“O righteous Father, the world doesn’t know you, but I do; and these disciples know you sent me.
    [26]I have revealed you to them, and I will continue to do so. Then your love for me will be in them, and I will be in them.”
    One should note that Jesus both declares the elect, but also declares those who are destined for destruction (verse 12).
    Jesus does not pray for those who are destined for destruction in this passage.
    Is there any place where Jesus prays that those in opposition to him would be saved? I cannot think of any place.

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    mennosota

    @beloved57, you are entirely correct. Jesus prayer is for those whom the Father has given him, even to this day and until the last of the elect are redeemed.
    Ok. I believe all the elect were redeemed once and for all at the Cross by Christ blood, but its applied during their earthly pilgrimage at Gods appointed time, even up to the last day.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    So in Jn 17:9 the world Christ didnt pray for are they which never become believers in Him. We know He prayed for all who shall believe in Him as Per Jn 17:20

    20 Neither pray I for these alone[In Vs 9], but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

    Now if people dont believe in Him, Christ gives this very simple reason why earlier in Jn 10:26

    26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

    And we know its the sheep of His that He definitely died for Jn 10:11,15

    11 [FONT="]I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

    [/FONT]
    15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

    Amen Brother ! Therefore those Christ didn't lay down His Life for, neither prayed for, they never become believers in Him because they consist of the world which was condemned already [goats].

    John 3:18, 36

    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


    Mat. 25:31-34; 41,46

    31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


    The Sheep were made Righteous by The Chief Shepherd's Death on their behalf John 10:11, 15; 1Pet. 5:4 !
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    Amen Brother ! Therefore those Christ didn't lay down His Life for, neither prayed for, they never become believers in Him because they consist of the world which was condemned already [goats].

    John 3:18, 36

    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


    Mat. 25:31-34; 41,46

    31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


    The Sheep were made Righteous by The Chief Shepherd's Death on their behalf John 10:11, 15; 1Pet. 5:4 !
    Read the Word!!!

    1 John 2:2 King James Version (KJV)
    2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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