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Thread: God will not give His glory to another, or will He?

  1. #46
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Continuing the words of "Thus saith the LORD my God" from verse 4 chapter 11;

    Zec 11:12-14 KJV
    (12) And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
    (13) And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.
    (14) Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

    ... and let's not forget, continuing from verse 4 chapter 12 where it also says "saith the LORD":

    Zec 12:9-10 KJV
    (9) And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
    (10) And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

    Joh 19:33-37 KJV
    (33) But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
    (34) But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
    (35) And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
    (36) For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
    (37) And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
    It is difficult to "prove" that the scriptures are using the pronouns found in the translations when the Hebrew words being translated are often without pronouns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    The Old Testament is not Unitarian.
    Correct, the Old Testament is Monotheistic with hints of Polytheism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    There is a unified witness in the scriptures that Jesus is the LORD, from many angles and many prophets. There are no scriptures that deny this link but plenty that affirm it. If you deny the image you will not be able to truly see God as he is, as he chose to reveal himself.
    If Jesus is the Son of God, there does not need to be any link that denies that Jesus is God Himself, since that would be self-evident.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

  2. #47
    Over 4000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    The Psalm starts the description with words like you might expect of a normal man because Psalm 24:3-5 is talking about men going to the temple to meet God.

    Psalm 24:7-10 appears to be talking about God entering into the Holy of Holies, where He meets with men.
    So you have to artificially split the Psalm in the middle to accomplish that. I suppose you could accomplish a lot with that method. That reminds me of how I have seen people squirm with Revelation and claim that God and Jesus are playing a tag-team in mid-breath, in and out, to avoid the force of the claim of Deity.

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    Over 4000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    It is difficult to "prove" that the scriptures are using the pronouns found in the translations when the Hebrew words being translated are often without pronouns.

    Correct, the Old Testament is Monotheistic with hints of Polytheism.

    If Jesus is the Son of God, there does not need to be any link that denies that Jesus is God Himself, since that would be self-evident.
    Psalms 82:1,8 KJV
    (1) A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
    (8) Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

    John 5:22-23 KJV
    (22) For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
    (23) That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

    1. God judges the nations, the Father does not judge the nations but the Son judges the nations. If anything is true, the Son is indeed God, and the only evidence that we have that the "Father" (which appears only in the New Testament) is God is from the word of the Son.

    2. You are not honoring the Son as you honor the Father. God does not give his glory to another. That is precisely what you refuse to do.That is the essence of your protest!

    John 1:10-11 KJV
    (10) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
    (11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

    Revelation 4:11 KJV
    (11) Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    So you have to artificially split the Psalm in the middle to accomplish that.
    There is nothing artificial about the split.
    It is a natural place to split the psalm based on who is being talked about in each verse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    I suppose you could accomplish a lot with that method. That reminds me of how I have seen people squirm with Revelation and claim that God and Jesus are playing a tag-team in mid-breath, in and out, to avoid the force of the claim of Deity.
    Whose words are being spoken in each of these verses?

    Isaiah 43:12
    12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, that I am God.



    Isaiah 44:6
    6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.



    Revelation 1:8
    8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    1. God judges the nations, the Father does not judge the nations but the Son judges the nations. If anything is true, the Son is indeed God, and the only evidence that we have that the "Father" (which appears only in the New Testament) is God is from the word of the Son.
    That is a twist: claiming that Jesus is God and the Father is not God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    2. You are not honoring the Son as you honor the Father. God does not give his glory to another. That is precisely what you refuse to do.That is the essence of your protest!
    Do you believe that God gave His only begotton Son?

    John 3:16
    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


    Do you believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God: Jesus?

    John 3:18
    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


    Or, do you refuse to believe that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God because you believe Jesus is God?
    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    There is nothing artificial about the split.
    It is a natural place to split the psalm based on who is being talked about in each verse.

    Whose words are being spoken in each of these verses?

    Isaiah 43:12
    12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, that I am God.



    Isaiah 44:6
    6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.



    Revelation 1:8
    8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
    Each and every reference to the "first and the last" the "beginning and the end" and "the Alpha and Omega" is the same God, the One God, also called the LORD, Jehovah, and Jesus. If any other being attempts to claim these unique and specific titles it would be blasphemy. Not two Gods, one Alpha and one Omega, not one beginning and one end, not one first and one last.

    Rev 1:8 KJV
    (8) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

    Rev 1:17-18 KJV
    (17) And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
    (18) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

    Rev 22:12-13 KJV
    (12) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
    (13) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

    Rev 22:20 KJV
    (20) He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    These are very clearly one and the same, as surely as if A + B = C, and C = D, that therefore A + B = D. I realize that recognizing this against a lifetime of different perspective may take a bit of adjustment. Isaiah is very clear that that form of title and address is reserved only for the One LORD God.

    If your argument is that "because that title is the LORD" therefore cannot be Jesus then that would be evidence of denying the scripture, substituting your own premise in place of the words. There's a reason Jesus uses those titles, and it is not for blasphemy. Remember, the ultimate defense against blasphemy is when the accused actually is the LORD God.

    Who is the LORD of the Sabbath?

    Exo 20:10-11 KJV
    (10) But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
    (11) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

    Luk 6:5 KJV
    (5) And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

    Only one Lord that I see in that commandment. No other Lords. If Jesus was anything other than that Lord he was guilty of blasphemy, making himself God.

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    “I am Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last,” was added to Revelation, verse 1:11.
    This was done to make Christ appear as a Trinity with the Father.

    Revelation 1:11
    KJ21
    saying, “I am Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What thou seest, write in a book and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia: unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.”
    ASV
    saying, What thou seest, write in a book and send it to the seven churches: unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamum, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
    AMP
    saying, “Write on a scroll what you see [in this revelation], and send it to the seven churches—to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”
    AMPC
    Saying, I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last. Write promptly what you see (your vision) in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia—to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.
    BRG
    Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
    CSB
    saying, “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    CEB
    It said, “Write down on a scroll whatever you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    CJB
    saying, “Write down what you see on a scroll, and send it to the seven Messianic communities — Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea!”
    CEV
    The voice said, “Write in a book what you see. Then send it to the seven churches in Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    DARBY
    saying, What thou seest write in a book, and send to the seven assemblies: to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.
    DLNT
    saying “Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches— to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamum, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea”.
    DRA
    Saying: What thou seest, write in a book, and send to the seven churches which are in Asia, to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamus, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.
    ERV
    It said, “Write down in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    ESV
    saying, “Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”
    ESVUK
    saying, “Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”
    EXB
    The voice said, “Write what you see in a ·book [scroll] and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea [C locations in western Asia Minor, present-day Turkey].”
    GNV
    Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, that first and that last: and that which thou seest write in a book, and send it unto the seven Churches which are in Asia, unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
    GW
    saying, “Write on a scroll what you see, and send it to the seven churches: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    GNT
    It said, “Write down what you see, and send the book to the churches in these seven cities: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    HCSB
    saying, “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    ICB
    The voice said, “Write what you see and send that book to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    ISV
    saying, “Write on a scroll what you see, and send it to the seven churches: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    PHILLIPS
    I, John, who am your brother and your companion in the distress, the kingdom and the faithful endurance to which Jesus calls us, was on the island called Patmos because I had spoken God’s message and borne witness to Jesus. On the Lord’s day I knew myself inspired by the Spirit, and I heard from behind me a voice loud as a trumpet-call saying, “Write down in a book what you see, and send it to the seven Churches—to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea!”
    JUB
    that said, I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, and What thou seest, write in a book and send it unto the seven congregations which are in Asia: unto Ephesus and unto Smyrna and unto Pergamos and unto Thyatira and unto Sardis and unto Philadelphia and unto Laodicea.
    KJV
    Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
    AKJV
    saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
    LEB
    saying, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”
    TLB
    saying, “I am A and Z, the First and Last!” And then I heard him say, “Write down everything you see, and send your letter to the seven churches in Turkey: to the church in Ephesus, the one in Smyrna, and those in Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    MSG
    I, John, with you all the way in the trial and the Kingdom and the passion of patience in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of God’s Word, the witness of Jesus. It was Sunday and I was in the Spirit, praying. I heard a loud voice behind me, trumpet-clear and piercing: “Write what you see into a book. Send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, Laodicea.” I turned and saw the voice. I saw a gold menorah with seven branches, And in the center, the Son of Man, in a robe and gold breastplate, hair a blizzard of white, Eyes pouring fire-blaze, both feet furnace-fired bronze, His voice a cataract, right hand holding the Seven Stars, His mouth a sharp-biting sword, his face a perigee sun. I saw this and fainted dead at his feet. His right hand pulled me upright, his voice reassured me:
    MEV
    saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and “What you see, write in a book, and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    MOUNCE
    saying, “Write what you see on a scroll and send it to the seven churches—to Ephesus, · Smyrna, · Pergamum, · Thyatira, · Sardis, · Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    NOG
    saying, “Write on a scroll what you see, and send it to the seven churches: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    NABRE
    which said, “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    NASB
    saying, “Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”
    NCV
    The voice said, “Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    NET
    saying: “Write in a book what you see and send it to the seven churches—to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    NIRV
    The voice said, “Write on a scroll what you see. Send it to the seven churches in Asia Minor. They are Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.”
    NIV
    which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.”
    NIVUK
    which said: ‘Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.’
    NKJV
    saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”
    NLV
    It said, “(*I am the First and the Last.) Write in a book what you see and send it to the seven churches. They are in the cities of Ephesus and Smyrna and Pergamum and Thyatira and Sardis and Philadelphia and Laodicea.”
    NLT
    It said, “Write in a book everything you see, and send it to the seven churches in the cities of Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    NRSV
    saying, “Write in a book what you see and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamum, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”
    NRSVA
    saying, ‘Write in a book what you see and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamum, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.’
    NRSVACE
    saying, ‘Write in a book what you see and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamum, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.’
    NRSVCE
    saying, “Write in a book what you see and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamum, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”
    NTE
    ‘Write down what you see in a book,’ it said, ‘and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.’
    OJB
    Saying, Ani Hu the Aleph and the Tav, HaRishon (The first) and HaAcharon (The last): and, What you see [in the chazon], write in a sefer and send it to the sheva (seven) HaKehillot, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea. [YESHAYAH 30:8]
    RSV
    saying, “Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Per′gamum and to Thyati′ra and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to La-odice′a.”
    RSVCE
    saying, “Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Per′gamum and to Thyati′ra and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to La-odice′a.”
    TLV
    saying, “Write what you see in a scroll, and send it to Messiah’s seven communities—to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”
    VOICE
    A Voice: [I am the Alpha and the Omega, the very beginning and the very end.] Make a book of what you see, write it down, and send it to the seven churches [which are in Asia]: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.
    WEB
    saying, “ What you see, write in a book and send to the seven assemblies : to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”
    WE
    The voice said, `Write what you see in a book. Send it to the seven churches in the cities of Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.'
    WYC
    saying to me, Write thou in a book that thing that thou seest [saying, That thing that thou seest, write in a book], and send to the seven churches that be in Asia; to Ephesus, [and] to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.
    YLT
    `I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last;' and, `What thou dost see, write in a scroll, and send to the seven assemblies that [are] in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.'

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    “I am Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last,” was added to Revelation, verse 1:11.
    This was done to make Christ appear as a Trinity with the Father.

    Spoiler

    Revelation 1:11
    KJ21
    saying, “I am Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What thou seest, write in a book and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia: unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.”
    ASV
    saying, What thou seest, write in a book and send it to the seven churches: unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamum, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
    AMP
    saying, “Write on a scroll what you see [in this revelation], and send it to the seven churches—to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”
    AMPC
    Saying, I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last. Write promptly what you see (your vision) in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia—to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.
    BRG
    Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
    CSB
    saying, “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    CEB
    It said, “Write down on a scroll whatever you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    CJB
    saying, “Write down what you see on a scroll, and send it to the seven Messianic communities — Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea!”
    CEV
    The voice said, “Write in a book what you see. Then send it to the seven churches in Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    DARBY
    saying, What thou seest write in a book, and send to the seven assemblies: to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.
    DLNT
    saying “Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches— to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamum, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea”.
    DRA
    Saying: What thou seest, write in a book, and send to the seven churches which are in Asia, to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamus, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.
    ERV
    It said, “Write down in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    ESV
    saying, “Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”
    ESVUK
    saying, “Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”
    EXB
    The voice said, “Write what you see in a ·book [scroll] and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea [C locations in western Asia Minor, present-day Turkey].”
    GNV
    Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, that first and that last: and that which thou seest write in a book, and send it unto the seven Churches which are in Asia, unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
    GW
    saying, “Write on a scroll what you see, and send it to the seven churches: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    GNT
    It said, “Write down what you see, and send the book to the churches in these seven cities: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    HCSB
    saying, “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    ICB
    The voice said, “Write what you see and send that book to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    ISV
    saying, “Write on a scroll what you see, and send it to the seven churches: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    PHILLIPS
    I, John, who am your brother and your companion in the distress, the kingdom and the faithful endurance to which Jesus calls us, was on the island called Patmos because I had spoken God’s message and borne witness to Jesus. On the Lord’s day I knew myself inspired by the Spirit, and I heard from behind me a voice loud as a trumpet-call saying, “Write down in a book what you see, and send it to the seven Churches—to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea!”
    JUB
    that said, I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, and What thou seest, write in a book and send it unto the seven congregations which are in Asia: unto Ephesus and unto Smyrna and unto Pergamos and unto Thyatira and unto Sardis and unto Philadelphia and unto Laodicea.
    KJV
    Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
    AKJV
    saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
    LEB
    saying, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”
    TLB
    saying, “I am A and Z, the First and Last!” And then I heard him say, “Write down everything you see, and send your letter to the seven churches in Turkey: to the church in Ephesus, the one in Smyrna, and those in Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    MSG
    I, John, with you all the way in the trial and the Kingdom and the passion of patience in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of God’s Word, the witness of Jesus. It was Sunday and I was in the Spirit, praying. I heard a loud voice behind me, trumpet-clear and piercing: “Write what you see into a book. Send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, Laodicea.” I turned and saw the voice. I saw a gold menorah with seven branches, And in the center, the Son of Man, in a robe and gold breastplate, hair a blizzard of white, Eyes pouring fire-blaze, both feet furnace-fired bronze, His voice a cataract, right hand holding the Seven Stars, His mouth a sharp-biting sword, his face a perigee sun. I saw this and fainted dead at his feet. His right hand pulled me upright, his voice reassured me:
    MEV
    saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and “What you see, write in a book, and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    MOUNCE
    saying, “Write what you see on a scroll and send it to the seven churches—to Ephesus, · Smyrna, · Pergamum, · Thyatira, · Sardis, · Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    NOG
    saying, “Write on a scroll what you see, and send it to the seven churches: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    NABRE
    which said, “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    NASB
    saying, “Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”
    NCV
    The voice said, “Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    NET
    saying: “Write in a book what you see and send it to the seven churches—to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    NIRV
    The voice said, “Write on a scroll what you see. Send it to the seven churches in Asia Minor. They are Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.”
    NIV
    which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.”
    NIVUK
    which said: ‘Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.’
    NKJV
    saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”
    NLV
    It said, “(*I am the First and the Last.) Write in a book what you see and send it to the seven churches. They are in the cities of Ephesus and Smyrna and Pergamum and Thyatira and Sardis and Philadelphia and Laodicea.”
    NLT
    It said, “Write in a book everything you see, and send it to the seven churches in the cities of Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
    NRSV
    saying, “Write in a book what you see and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamum, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”
    NRSVA
    saying, ‘Write in a book what you see and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamum, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.’
    NRSVACE
    saying, ‘Write in a book what you see and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamum, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.’
    NRSVCE
    saying, “Write in a book what you see and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamum, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”
    NTE
    ‘Write down what you see in a book,’ it said, ‘and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.’
    OJB
    Saying, Ani Hu the Aleph and the Tav, HaRishon (The first) and HaAcharon (The last): and, What you see [in the chazon], write in a sefer and send it to the sheva (seven) HaKehillot, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea. [YESHAYAH 30:8]
    RSV
    saying, “Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Per′gamum and to Thyati′ra and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to La-odice′a.”
    RSVCE
    saying, “Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Per′gamum and to Thyati′ra and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to La-odice′a.”
    TLV
    saying, “Write what you see in a scroll, and send it to Messiah’s seven communities—to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”
    VOICE
    A Voice: [I am the Alpha and the Omega, the very beginning and the very end.] Make a book of what you see, write it down, and send it to the seven churches [which are in Asia]: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.
    WEB
    saying, “ What you see, write in a book and send to the seven assemblies : to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”
    WE
    The voice said, `Write what you see in a book. Send it to the seven churches in the cities of Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.'
    WYC
    saying to me, Write thou in a book that thing that thou seest [saying, That thing that thou seest, write in a book], and send to the seven churches that be in Asia; to Ephesus, [and] to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.
    YLT
    `I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last;' and, `What thou dost see, write in a scroll, and send to the seven assemblies that [are] in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.'
    No, it wasn't, but if that was the case it did a horrible job of it since there is no "Trinity" language therein. Regardless, citing a million translations that all choose the same source text (of Rome and the Vatican) does not make a proper case for which source text is the authentic scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Each and every reference to the "first and the last" the "beginning and the end" and "the Alpha and Omega" is the same God, the One God, also called the LORD, Jehovah, and Jesus. If any other being attempts to claim these unique and specific titles it would be blasphemy. Not two Gods, one Alpha and one Omega, not one beginning and one end, not one first and one last.

    Rev 1:8 KJV
    (8) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
    That verse states that those are the words of God the Father, as does Revelation 1:1.
    Notice how the author is speaking about God and Jesus as two different beings:

    Revelation 1:4-5
    4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
    5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,


    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Rev 1:17-18 KJV
    (17) And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
    (18) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

    Rev 22:12-13 KJV
    (12) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
    (13) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

    Rev 22:20 KJV
    (20) He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    These are very clearly one and the same, as surely as if A + B = C, and C = D, that therefore A + B = D.
    I can see why you would think that way, but it is not conclusive, not when John is shown that God and Jesus are separate beings.

    Revelation 5:6-7
    6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
    7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.



    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    I realize that recognizing this against a lifetime of different perspective may take a bit of adjustment.
    I was raised to believe in the Trinity doctrine.
    I found that looking at the scriptures through the lens of the Trinity doctrine only confuses what the scriptures say instead of clarifying them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Isaiah is very clear that that form of title and address is reserved only for the One LORD God.

    If your argument is that "because that title is the LORD"
    No, that is your argument that you just got done stating.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    therefore cannot be Jesus then that would be evidence of denying the scripture, substituting your own premise in place of the words. There's a reason Jesus uses those titles, and it is not for blasphemy.
    Yes, there is a reason Jesus uses those titles, but it is not blasphemy because that form of title and address is NOT reserved only for the One LORD God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Remember, the ultimate defense against blasphemy is when the accused actually is the LORD God.
    Actually the ultimate defense against blasphemy is when the accused never actually did the acts He is being accused of doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Who is the LORD of the Sabbath?
    You are confused, as shown by your use of all capital letters when writing lord.

    Mark 2:27-28
    27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
    28 Therefore the Son of man is lord also of the sabbath.


    Did you miss who the sabbath was made for?
    Did you miss the word "Therefore"?
    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    “I am Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last,” was added to Revelation, verse 1:11.
    This was done to make Christ appear as a Trinity with the Father.
    Look again at Revelation 1:1 and see who gave the prophecy:

    Revelation 1:1
    1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    No, it wasn't, but if that was the case it did a horrible job of it since there is no "Trinity" language therein. Regardless, citing a million translations that all choose the same source text (of Rome and the Vatican) does not make a proper case for which source text is the authentic scripture.
    The different bible passages are not all the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Look again at Revelation 1:1 and see who gave the prophecy:

    Revelation 1:1
    1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
    God the Father gave it to Christ to give it to John. Christ is not the Alpha and Omega, and the First and the Last. Only Yahwah can make that claim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    God the Father gave it to Christ to give it to John.
    Yes, that means that some of the words written in the prophecy are the words spoken by the Father and repeated by Jesus for accuracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    Christ is not the Alpha and Omega, and the First and the Last. Only Yahwah can make that claim.
    I am not sure where you get the idea that Only Yahwah can make the claim to be the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last.

    Jesus is the first and the last.

    Revelation 1:5
    5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

    1 Corinthians 15:45
    45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.



    Jesus is the beginning and the end.

    Colossians 1:18
    18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

    Romans 10:4
    4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

    Learn to read what is written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Jesus is the beginning and the end.

    Colossians 1:18
    18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

    Romans 10:4
    4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
    Great job of dictionary theology.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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