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Thread: Is Open Theology Wrong?

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    Is Open Theology Wrong?

    Open Theology postulates that the Sovereign God, who knows all things and directs all things, actually isn't all knowing. Can such a postulation come from God, or does it come from demons who delude men into thinking God is less than who He is?
    God is all knowing and He directs all the affairs of men as described in Isaiah 44 & 45.
    Isaiah 44:24-28
    [24]This is what the lord says— your Redeemer and Creator: “I am the lord, who made all things. I alone stretched out the heavens. Who was with me when I made the earth?
    [25]I expose the false prophets as liars and make fools of fortune-tellers. I cause the wise to give bad advice, thus proving them to be fools.
    [26]But I carry out the predictions of my prophets! By them I say to Jerusalem, ‘People will live here again,’ and to the towns of Judah, ‘You will be rebuilt; I will restore all your ruins!’
    [27]When I speak to the rivers and say, ‘Dry up!’ they will be dry.
    [28]When I say of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd,’ he will certainly do as I say. He will command, ‘Rebuild Jerusalem’; he will say, ‘Restore the Temple.’”
    Isaiah 45:1-25
    [1]This is what the lord says to Cyrus, his anointed one, whose right hand he will empower. Before him, mighty kings will be paralyzed with fear. Their fortress gates will be opened, never to shut again.
    [2]This is what the lord says: “I will go before you, Cyrus, and level the mountains. I will smash down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron.
    [3]And I will give you treasures hidden in the darkness— secret riches. I will do this so you may know that I am the lord, the God of Israel, the one who calls you by name.
    [4]“And why have I called you for this work? Why did I call you by name when you did not know me? It is for the sake of Jacob my servant, Israel my chosen one.
    [5]I am the lord; there is no other God. I have equipped you for battle, though you don’t even know me,
    [6]so all the world from east to west will know there is no other God. I am the lord, and there is no other.
    [7]I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, the lord, am the one who does these things.
    [8]“Open up, O heavens, and pour out your righteousness. Let the earth open wide so salvation and righteousness can sprout up together. I, the lord, created them.
    [9]“What sorrow awaits those who argue with their Creator. Does a clay pot argue with its maker? Does the clay dispute with the one who shapes it, saying, ‘Stop, you’re doing it wrong!’ Does the pot exclaim, ‘How clumsy can you be?’
    [10]How terrible it would be if a newborn baby said to its father, ‘Why was I born?’ or if it said to its mother, ‘Why did you make me this way?’”
    [11]This is what the lord says— the Holy One of Israel and your Creator: “Do you question what I do for my children? Do you give me orders about the work of my hands?
    [12]I am the one who made the earth and created people to live on it. With my hands I stretched out the heavens. All the stars are at my command.
    [13]I will raise up Cyrus to fulfill my righteous purpose, and I will guide his actions. He will restore my city and free my captive people— without seeking a reward! I, the lord of Heaven’s Armies, have spoken!”
    [14]This is what the lord says: “You will rule the Egyptians, the Ethiopians, and the Sabeans. They will come to you with all their merchandise, and it will all be yours. They will follow you as prisoners in chains. They will fall to their knees in front of you and say, ‘God is with you, and he is the only God. There is no other.’”
    [15]Truly, O God of Israel, our Savior, you work in mysterious ways.
    [16]All craftsmen who make idols will be humiliated. They will all be disgraced together.
    [17]But the lord will save the people of Israel with eternal salvation. Throughout everlasting ages, they will never again be humiliated and disgraced.
    [18]For the lord is God, and he created the heavens and earth and put everything in place. He made the world to be lived in, not to be a place of empty chaos. “I am the lord,” he says, “and there is no other.
    [19]I publicly proclaim bold promises. I do not whisper obscurities in some dark corner. I would not have told the people of Israel to seek me if I could not be found. I, the lord, speak only what is true and declare only what is right.
    [20]“Gather together and come, you fugitives from surrounding nations. What fools they are who carry around their wooden idols and pray to gods that cannot save!
    [21]Consult together, argue your case. Get together and decide what to say. Who made these things known so long ago? What idol ever told you they would happen? Was it not I, the lord? For there is no other God but me, a righteous God and Savior. There is none but me.
    [22]Let all the world look to me for salvation! For I am God; there is no other.
    [23]I have sworn by my own name; I have spoken the truth, and I will never go back on my word: Every knee will bend to me, and every tongue will declare allegiance to me.”
    [24]The people will declare, “The lord is the source of all my righteousness and strength.” And all who were angry with him will come to him and be ashamed.
    [25]In the lord all the generations of Israel will be justified, and in him they will boast.
    Mod Edit: Trolling line about Open Theists removed
    Last edited by Sherman; September 10th, 2018 at 10:18 AM. Reason: Trolling

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    What is an open theists?

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    God is sovereign only within his holy, just, merciful, righteous nature.

    God cannot and will not sin against himself or his holy law, nor will he sin against his created beings.

    Calvinism makes God a sinful, unjust tyrant.

    If you believe that God is an unjust tyrant that sends people to hell before they are born, you will perish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    What is an open theists?
    from gotquestions.org

    “Open theism,” also known as “openness theology,” the “openness of God,” and “free will theism,” is an attempt to explain the foreknowledge of God in relationship to the free will of man. The argument of open theism is essentially this: human beings are truly free; if God absolutely knew the future, human beings could not truly be free. Therefore, God does not know absolutely everything about the future. Open theism holds that the future is not knowable. Therefore, God knows everything that can be known, but He does not know the future.

    Open theism bases these beliefs on Scripture passages which describe God “changing His mind” or “being surprised” or “seeming to gain knowledge” (Genesis 6:6; 22:12; Exodus 32:14; Jonah 3:10). In light of the many other Scriptures that declare God's knowledge of the future, these Scriptures should be understood as God describing Himself in ways that we can understand. God knows what our actions and decisions will be, but He “changes His mind” in regard to His actions based on our actions. God’s disappointment at the wickedness of humanity does not mean He was not aware it would occur.

    In contradiction to open theism, Psalm 139:4, 16 state, “Before a word is on my tongue you know it completely, O LORD...All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.” How could God predict intricate details in the Old Testament about Jesus Christ if He does not know the future? How could God in any manner guarantee our eternal salvation if He does not know what the future holds?

    Ultimately, open theism fails in that it attempts to explain the unexplainable—the relationship between God's foreknowledge and mankind's free will. Just as extreme forms of Calvinism fail in that they make human beings nothing more than pre-programmed robots, so open theism fails in that it rejects God's true omniscience and sovereignty. God must be understood through faith, for “without faith it is impossible to please God” (Hebrews 11:6a). Open theism is, therefore, not scriptural. It is simply another way for finite man to try to understand an infinite God. Open theism should be rejected by followers of Christ. While open theism is an explanation for the relationship between God's foreknowledge and human free will, it is not the biblical explanation.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    from gotquestions.org

    “Open theism,” also known as “openness theology,” the “openness of God,” and “free will theism,” is an attempt to explain the foreknowledge of God in relationship to the free will of man. The argument of open theism is essentially this: human beings are truly free; if God absolutely knew the future, human beings could not truly be free. Therefore, God does not know absolutely everything about the future. Open theism holds that the future is not knowable. Therefore, God knows everything that can be known, but He does not know the future.

    Open theism bases these beliefs on Scripture passages which describe God “changing His mind” or “being surprised” or “seeming to gain knowledge” (Genesis 6:6; 22:12; Exodus 32:14; Jonah 3:10). In light of the many other Scriptures that declare God's knowledge of the future, these Scriptures should be understood as God describing Himself in ways that we can understand. God knows what our actions and decisions will be, but He “changes His mind” in regard to His actions based on our actions. God’s disappointment at the wickedness of humanity does not mean He was not aware it would occur.

    In contradiction to open theism, Psalm 139:4, 16 state, “Before a word is on my tongue you know it completely, O LORD...All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.” How could God predict intricate details in the Old Testament about Jesus Christ if He does not know the future? How could God in any manner guarantee our eternal salvation if He does not know what the future holds?

    Ultimately, open theism fails in that it attempts to explain the unexplainable—the relationship between God's foreknowledge and mankind's free will. Just as extreme forms of Calvinism fail in that they make human beings nothing more than pre-programmed robots, so open theism fails in that it rejects God's true omniscience and sovereignty. God must be understood through faith, for “without faith it is impossible to please God” (Hebrews 11:6a). Open theism is, therefore, not scriptural. It is simply another way for finite man to try to understand an infinite God. Open theism should be rejected by followers of Christ. While open theism is an explanation for the relationship between God's foreknowledge and human free will, it is not the biblical explanation.

    Very good Bright Raven.

    God's will for humanity is that they believe in his Son Jesus Christ. We are all born with the ability to have faith and believe. To say that only some can believe in Jesus makes God unjust. Calvinism is self defeating. You will not be saved if you believe that God is unjust, nor will you be saved if you believe that Jesus only atoned for some sins, but not all sin. Salvation always has been and always will be by grace through faith. Calvinist do not have faith in God, nor do they have faith Christ. It is a faithless religion.

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    The Flying Troll Hammer ✈ Spam Killing Tomcat Sherman's Avatar
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    Debating viewpoints is welcome, just don't troll. And Open Theist saying this about a Calvinist would get the same treatment. I get tired of people on here saying the same kind of thing about Calvinists. Debate can be done without throwing out the ugly names and accusations. Nuff said.

    The Troll Shredder--Brrrtttttt!

    June is Gay Pride Month.Tolerance and diversity? More like tolerate perversity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    Open Theology postulates that the Sovereign God, who knows all things and directs all things, actually isn't all knowing.

    Strawman Fallacy
    Description: Substituting a person’s actual position or argument with a distorted, exaggerated, or misrepresented version of the position of the argument.

    What does Open Theology really postulate?

    Open Theism
    Open Theism is the thesis that, because God loves us and desires that we freely choose to reciprocate His love, He has made His knowledge of, and plans for, the future conditional upon our actions. Though omniscient, God does not know what we will freely do in the future. Though omnipotent, He has chosen to invite us to freely collaborate with Him in governing and developing His creation, thereby also allowing us the freedom to thwart His hopes for us. God desires that each of us freely enter into a loving and dynamic personal relationship with Him, and He has therefore left it open to us to choose for or against His will.

    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    Can such a postulation come from God, or does it come from demons who delude men into thinking God is less than who He is?
    God is all knowing and He directs all the affairs of men as described in Isaiah 44 & 45.
    If the Bible is to be believed, then Open Theism comes from God.

    Jeremiah 18:7-10
    7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
    8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
    9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
    10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.



    Ezekiel 18:21-24,26-28
    21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
    22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
    23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
    24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

    26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
    27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
    28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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